2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

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Drucker
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#176 Post by Drucker » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:34 pm

I just want to reiterate that I did see the new print and it was amazing. Maybe the colors were a bit off, I'm not sure. Nothing struck me while watching it as being wrong. In fact I distinctly remember thinking that film's texture very much resembled the look of mid-60s film stock that we see in home video and I've seen theatrically plenty of times (especially in the dawn of man sequences).

I saw a really faded print of Rio Bravo last year and it was one of the best filmgoing experiences I've ever had. 2001 was equally enjoyable, and it was a higher quality print than the one that I saw at MOMI in 70mm 3 years ago.

The whining by those who haven't even seen it is getting out of hand.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#177 Post by Roscoe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:38 pm

Drucker wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:34 pm
I just want to reiterate that I did see the new print and it was amazing. Maybe the colors were a bit off, I'm not sure. Nothing struck me while watching it as being wrong. In fact I distinctly remember thinking that film's texture very much resembled the look of mid-60s film stock that we see in home video and I've seen theatrically plenty of times (especially in the dawn of man sequences).

I saw a really faded print of Rio Bravo last year and it was one of the best filmgoing experiences I've ever had. 2001 was equally enjoyable, and it was a higher quality print than the one that I saw at MOMI in 70mm 3 years ago.

The whining by those who haven't even seen it is getting out of hand.
Which new print did you see? The Nolan version? The Nolan print they ran at MOMI recently had definite color-timing issues, and detail in darker elements was missing -- in the hotel room at film's end, you could see none of the details of what the actor was wearing as he sat at that table, it was a black blur with Dullea's head and hands attached.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#178 Post by Drucker » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:58 pm

I saw the same print in it's opening run at the Village East. If that was the case, I didn't notice it. But again: if in Nolan's version there was purposefully no restoration or minimal work done...that doesn't shock me.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#179 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:45 pm

I gathered that the main objection was to the implication that the Nolan prints closely approximate what audiences would have seen when the film was originally released. When in fact that is apparently very far from the truth, with some commentators saying Kubrick would be aghast at seeing the film being presented this way, it being completely contrary to his intentions.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#180 Post by dshooker » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:44 am


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Roger Ryan
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#181 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 am

This is the same video which has been linked to twice previously in this thread (in June and last month), but for those who haven't seen it...(I shudder every time I view it)

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#182 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:56 am

Roger Ryan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 am
This is the same video which has been linked to twice previously in this thread (in June and last month), but for those who haven't seen it...(I shudder every time I view it)
I've read online that Nolan has Red-Green colour blindness. Anyone know if this is true?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#183 Post by Rayon Vert » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:08 pm

One of the comments says "2018: A Yellow Odyssey".

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#184 Post by aox » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:40 pm

That's incredibly bad. No one said anything during the entire process?

I think the 2007 BD is almost perfect (even being an early format release), so I'm happy to skip this 'upgrade'.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#185 Post by EddieLarkin » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:25 pm

That video is not representative of what the upcoming disc will look like. It's merely the old transfer retimed for the purposes of the trailer showcasing the "Nolan" re-release.

And the "Nolan" prints recently exhibited also have nothing to do with how the new transfer will look.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#186 Post by jsteffe » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:27 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:25 pm
That video is not representative of what the upcoming disc will look like. It's merely the old transfer retimed for the purposes of the trailer showcasing the "Nolan" re-release.

And the "Nolan" prints recently exhibited also have nothing to do with how the new transfer will look.
Exactly. I'm glad that you pointed this out.

If anyone has seen one of the recent digital projections of 2001, that is probably a good indication of what the future 4K UHD Blu-ray will look like. (As opposed to the Nolan-sponsored 70mm prints, which were created photochemically - an entirely different workflow from the digital restoration.) But most likely we will just have to wait until reviews of the actual disc start showing up.

Warner has a very good track record overall with their digital restorations. It might not look the same as the earlier Blu-ray of 2001, but in some ways it might end up being closer to how the film looked in theaters during its original release. Or possibly not, but who can be completely sure?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#187 Post by david hare » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:23 pm

Ideally it should display all the advantages of a well mastered HDR 4K encode with better shadow detail, much higher stability and grain management and color grading that's compeltely fathful to original Metrocolor first gen prints - i.e. natural primaries, pitch whites and deep blacks. No blue bias no yellow bias. And no fucking Chistopher Nolan who hasn't got a clue about digital domains and work, or is consciously stiking some "anti digital" pose to sound like a sort of aesthetic grandee for other unwashed who havent got a clue about what analogue IS, let alone what digital IS and DOES. I really thought this whole digital-analouge Jeffrey Wells style fuckery had finished long ago. I will buy it come what may as I love the really film like quality they can get with highe rrez and the HDR. I won't be buying the new Death in Venice if they release it as a UDH/HDR because I hate the film, but it will be extremely interesting to see if Warners rule the roost on the color grading aand the encode for that. The yellow shit passing as a restoration has to be a joke, hasn't it?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#188 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:05 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:25 pm
That video is not representative of what the upcoming disc will look like. It's merely the old transfer retimed for the purposes of the trailer showcasing the "Nolan" re-release.

And the "Nolan" prints recently exhibited also have nothing to do with how the new transfer will look.
Thanks to you and David for restoring some sanity to this thread.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#189 Post by tenia » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:54 am

david hare wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:23 pm
The yellow shit passing as a restoration has to be a joke, hasn't it?
Ritrovata did it again with The Producers just recently, so I guess the member who heard they fixed their grading issues sadly was misled.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#190 Post by david hare » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:56 pm

And they still insist theyre doing the bidding of their "clients" Not their fucking egos?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#191 Post by tenia » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:46 am

I dont think it's an ego problem, but a reasoning one. They have their reasons for doing what they do, but it's the whole thing which isn't right and is a bad idea.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#192 Post by david hare » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:08 am

What reasons? To waste everyone’s time and money? To offer cinema history a slap in the face? To discredit the work of great artists?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#193 Post by tenia » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:43 am

Technical ones : they really seem to think it makes sense to replicate this Release print look. As Danny Duchesneau wrote on blu-ray.com : "Back in 1972, when you went to the theater to watch a movie, they would project a Release Print of the film, not the OCN, right?"

But as he also wrote : "The thing is, a Release Print film stock has characteristics that modifies the colors and contrast of the OCN so even though you color correct the OCN properly, it will never look like when it was projected at the theater back in 1972."

So, it has a logic with a workflow etc that I'm sure Ritrovata or Eclair could defend in a very rigorous way, but it doesn't mean there isn't a flaw in the reasoning. What always surprises me most with this grading debate is :
- how the laboratories don't seem to realise what a heavy signature they're leaving on their restorations, which of course is totally opposite to how transparent to the source a restoration should be.
- how it took years for cinephiles, technophiles and connoisseurs to give this traction instead of brandishing the whole "we're finally getting the true look of these movies !" shenanigan.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#194 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:42 am

I saw quite a few release print screenings in 1972 (and throughout that decade and earlier) and recall very few, if any, that had the urine-soaked look of these "restorations" (apart from something like The Godfather I and II that appeared to be deliberately graded to emphasize yellow and brown). Specifically, I've seen 2001 screened in 35mm and 70mm in 1971, 1980, and 2014 - all three times, the palette closely resembled the Warner Blu-ray from 2007 and not the 2018 70mm re-release demonstration. If the intent is to replicate the look of a faded print being projected using an aging projector bulb, then the Ritrovata and Eclair restorations are successful. If not...

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#195 Post by Roscoe » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:24 am

Roger Ryan wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:42 am
I saw quite a few release print screenings in 1972 (and throughout that decade and earlier) and recall very few, if any, that had the urine-soaked look of these "restorations" (apart from something like The Godfather I and II that appeared to be deliberately graded to emphasize yellow and brown). Specifically, I've seen 2001 screened in 35mm and 70mm in 1971, 1980, and 2014 - all three times, the palette closely resembled the Warner Blu-ray from 2007 and not the 2018 70mm re-release demonstration. If the intent is to replicate the look of a faded print being projected using an aging projector bulb, then the Ritrovata and Eclair restorations are successful. If not...
THE GODFATHER and especially the Vito Corleone sequences in GODFATHER II always had that yellow to golden look -- it was a conscious choice on the part of Gordon Willis, I seem to remember it had something to do with the look of gaslight. I quite agree about 2001 never looking urine-soaked until Christopher Nolan decided that if he couldn't reach Kubrick's level, he'd bloody well drag Kubrick down to his.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#196 Post by Fred Holywell » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:09 pm

FWIW, I saw 2001 in 1971, and don't remember it looking anywhere close to yellow. Saw it again around 1980, same thing.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#197 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:20 pm

Just wondering if anyone can answer a burning question for me on this film:

Is it supposed to look yellow?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#198 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:26 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:20 pm
Just wondering if anyone can answer a burning question for me on this film:

Is it supposed to look yellow?
Okay, I'm sorry about bringing this up again. I know we're all pretty much in agreement on this site in regards to what an accurate/decent transfer looks like. I guess the cumulative effect of seeing that comparison trailer combined with the caps-a-holic comparison of the (unbelievably-bad) restoration of The Producers plus those Death in Venice screengrabs just forced me to hate-post!

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#199 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:31 pm

It's fine, it just feels like this thread's tires are in mud and we won't stop hitting the gas. At least let some screengrabs from the new Blu release come out

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#200 Post by ng4996 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:57 pm

Saw this the other night, advertised as the new restoration. I had absolutely no Issues with the color, lots of deep blacks and true white, no yellow tinting at all as I could tell. The problem I did have is that It seemed to have motion smoothing applied. Many camera movements and ships moving in space were almost nauseating. Has anyone else experienced this?

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