The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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Tribe
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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#551 Post by Tribe » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:49 pm

For those of you who might be interested, a new volume in the series of Film Noir books edited by Alain Silver and James Ursini is on the verge of being released: Film Noir, the Directors. It shows up on Amazon as being "temporarily out of stock," but according to Mr. Silver in an email to me, it should be in stock by March 15. This volume is purported to be the "de facto" Film Noir Reader 5....until that actually comes out (if ever).

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#552 Post by Tribe » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:25 pm

I'm missing only nine out of the Noir list of 121 that I haven't seen and I either haven't been able to find a decent release or none in the US:

Shadow of a Doubt (Hitchcock, 1943) (there is a legit American release of this)
Detective Story (Wyler, 1951) (likewise, a legit American release exists)

Slightly Scarlet (Dwan, 1956)
Hollow Triumph aka The Scar (Sekely, 1948)
Moonrise (Borzage, 1949)
The Chase (Ripley, 1946)
Woman On the Run (Foster, 1950)
Phantom Lady (Siodmak, 1944)
Private Hell 36 (Siegel, 1954)

Any thoughts whether the last seven are available in other Regions? Many of them are available in potentially shitty versions from companies like Alpha and VCI (although some, like Phantom Lady are nowhere to be found when it comes to any Region 1 or 0 relase). But before I spring the $6 or $7 for those versions, I thought I'd tap into recommendations here first.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#553 Post by antnield » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:31 pm

Phantom Lady has had R2 French and Spanish discs and a R4 edition too. Some info on the latter here.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#554 Post by starmanof51 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:45 pm

Tribe wrote:Slightly Scarlet (Dwan, 1956)
Hollow Triumph aka The Scar (Sekely, 1948)
Phantom Lady (Siodmak, 1944)
The French Carlotta disc of Phantom Lady is pretty terrific and is easy to recommend but not cheap last I saw. As you mention, VCI has some of these. I have their Slightly Scarlet and don't think it's too bad, but the Beav has a comp up with a Carlotta release that's unsurprisingly better. VCI has The Scar as well, which is deep in my kevyip. Beav also has caps for that one so you can see what you think. I think I'm going to be saddened by the quality when I finally get around to it, but will probably not regret the $3 it cost me in one of their ridiculous Christmas sales a few years ago.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#555 Post by Murdoch » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:42 pm

There's an R2 of The Scar/Hollow Triumph but I hear the quality is godawful.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#556 Post by Tribe » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Received Film Noir: The Directors by Silver and Ursini today, and it looks like a very nice almost 480 pages of worth of coverage on the major noir directors: Robert Aldrich, John Brahm, Jules Dassin, Andre de Toth, Edward Dmytryk, John Farrow, Felix Feist, Samuel Fuller, Henry Hathaway, Alfred Hitchcock, John Huston, Fritz Lang, Joseph Lewis, Joseph Losey, Ida Lupino, Anthony Mann, Max Ophuls, Gerd Oswald, Otto Preminger, Nicholas Ray, Don Siegel, Robert Siodmak, Jacques Tourneur, Edgar Ulmer, Raoul Walsh, Orson Welles, Billy Wilder and Robert Wise. It looks like these are all new essays on these directors, aside from the entry on John Farrow, wich expands on an earlier essay which appeared in the original Film Noir Reader.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#557 Post by Yojimbo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:52 pm

Recently watched an early Boetticher, 'Behind Locked Doors': I can't say you could immediately spot the hand of those later classic Westerns, but, for the most part, it was a fun ride, and might have been in some way an inspiration for Fuller's 'Shock Corridor'
For the most part it was an intelligent enough script, although its fair to say the ending was
SpoilerShow
more than somewhat rushed and rather too facilely feel-good for my liking
Also boasted some great villainous character actor support as well as the legendary Tor Johnson (of 'Plan Nine' fame)
Not a major noir but definitely recommended to fans of noir and Boetticher

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#558 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:47 pm

I'm preparing for an in-depth genre study of Noir, so amidst the dozen other viewing projects I'm entangled in, I'm also trying to fill some Noir gaps. Actually, this should have taken precedence since it's part of paid work, but you know how it goes! I'll be weighing in with thumbnails via this thread as I patch more holes in my viewing. If there's any new discoveries anyone's made since this thread's heyday or defenses/attacks for/against any of these films, I'd love to hear about it!

Armored Car Robbery (Robert Fleischer 1950) Not sure how this average programmer ended up charting on our list, but there it is. While I was reasonably entertained, there's nothing here that wasn't done better elsewhere, and precious little that stands out to praise.

the Big Combo (Joseph H Lewis 1955) Yeah yeah yeah I know, I should've seen this one a while ago, but like a lot of films only available in ropey PD versions, I put this off in the hopes of restorations that never came. It's easy to see why the film has its fine reputation, as this is a cruel and clever noir with Richard Conte wisely cast as the heavy-- it's unreal how much better he is as a villain than a hero, though arguably he was the villain of Whirlpool as much as Jose Ferrer! Obviously the Alton look is outstanding and I loved the novel scenes involving the hearing piece of Brian Donlevy's tragic washed up mobster.

the Big Sleep (Michael Winner 1978) Since there's no love lost between me and the original Hawks treatment, I was ready for this to bowl me over. It has a great cast, led by Robert Mitchum as Philip Marlowe and James Stewart as Gen Sternwood, and more freedom to delve into the sexual content of Chandler's original work. Sadly, it seems this is just not particularly good material in anyone's hands. Bright spots include Oliver Reed, having great fun in his supporting role, and a weird third act appearance by a hobbled Richard Boone. The strongest demerits are reserved for Candy Clark's bizarre and obnoxious performance as the murderous wild child. The behavior of Clark, so fresh and daffy as the clueless object of affection in American Graffiti, is so inexplicably awful that the fault really lies mostly in director Winner's unwillingness to correct her embarrassing wrongheadedness. Other than allowing things like that to happen, the filmmaking is nondescript, and so's the film.

the Long Goodbye (Robert Altman 1973) Despite its lofty reputation, I found this easily the worst of the 70s films attempting to comment on the noirs of decades earlier. Most of the problems can be spread between Robert Altman's typical aimless meandering, which kills the mystery aspects, and especially Elliot Gould's central performance. Gould's mumbling smartass is so far removed from Philip Marlowe that I couldn't understand why they even bothered to keep the name. I'm all for a film about noir willing to treat the genre with disdain, but we already have Kiss Me Deadly and that proved it could mock the worst excesses of noirs and still be an exemplar of the genre.This is just a mocking joke, a failure on either level, and I didn't find it amusing or involving. Minor points awarded to Sterling Hayden's winning Hemingway impression, but little else here left me feeling charitable.

Moonrise (Frank Borzage 1948) My apologies to its fervent defenders, but this didn't work for me at all. The tonal shifts and treacly approach to the material grated on me and I'm afraid I found the redemption aspect oversold and overwrought. The performances, especially the lead, were equally dreadful, with the exception of Allyn Joslyn as the implausibly understanding sheriff. Sorry.

Pitfall (Andre de Toth 1948) Wonderful study of sexual politics with poor Lizabeth Scott put through the ringer to satisfy the male urges of every man she encounters. We get three lowlifes in this one, with Dick Powell's "good guy" not much better than the more conventional hoods he's competing with-- his pathetic, wishy-washy flirtation with and subsequent dismissal of Scott's affection leads to her damnation and his walking away. This is all about the male fears of the suburban stronghold and ultimate bolstering of the norm, but the ending, as Cold Bishop has keenly pointed out, is a cruel and unfair one, even for the genre. There's nothing happy about this happy ending, not for anyone still standing. Easily my favorite viewing of this round.

Private Hell 36 (Don Siegel 1954) Disappointing, glacially-paced noir with Steve Cochran as a police detective who falls hard for singer Ida Lupino (did anyone play more piano playing chanteuses than Lupino?) and pockets a bunch of funny money to treat her right. That it takes almost an hour for even that to happen says a lot about the priorities of this one. Dorothy Malone is wasted in the role of Worried Housewife to Cochran's reluctant partner. Great title, but little else.

the Quiet Room (Steven Soderbergh 1993) / Professional Man (Steven Soderbergh 1995) Soderbergh's two entries for Showtime's noir revival series Fallen Angels are fascinating, because between the two you can see the growth of one of our great auteurs from eager student to master in just a year (though the second wasn't released for another). All things being considered, the Quiet Room isn't too shabby, a fun run about cops roughing up prostitutes to later shake down johns, but the twisty story doesn't have enough time to take advantage of the good basic material and it all comes down to some nice dialog and some awkward staging-- this is ultimately a shrug-job. But wow, Professional Man gets the fatalistic noir feel down pat and Soderbergh's wise use of restraint and tone gives it a wonderfully self-contained and novel spin on a simple but effective storyline that could easily have been transposed from the classic era (without the clever homosexual content of course). Soderbergh's confidence in the material shows, and the wonderful final button of Noir's basic message according to Ellroy ("You're fucked") is exactly right. Both are available on YouTube.

Raw Deal (Anthony Mann 1948) I finally saw T-Men a few months back and it left me indifferent but this Mann merits most of the lavish praise it's been slathered in here and elsewhere. It looks beautiful, of course, but as always with Mann, I found the ability for crass and sudden violence to still be his most effective calling card-- the most striking example of which here has to be the horrible offhand way Raymond Burr ignites a woman doused in spilt liquor for having the gall to bump into him while dancing. The musical chairs of the three central characters is spread a little thin early and often, but Dennis O'Keefe makes a good unsympathetic protagonist before his conversion. Don't think it would have made my list had I seen it in time, but I can respect its placement.

the Rules of Film Noir (Elaine Donnelly Pieper 2009) There's plenty of middling docs on assorted Noir discs that aim to explain the phenom of Film Noir, yet precious few hit the mark. This one comes closer than most, and BBC presenter Matthew Sweet, while a bit cute at times, serves as an amiable host for this collection of familiar clips and insights.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#559 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:00 pm

the Amazing Mr X AKA the Spiritualist (Bernard Vorhaus 1948) Sorry folks, this one just doesn't qualify as noir to my eyes anymore than say the Uninvited or any other Universal B-horror from the era. That the psychic's phony doesn't really matter too much in the wash. Cathy O'Donnell is as fresh-faced as ever, but there's only so much John Alton can do with the silly, silly material.

the Burglar (Paul Wendkos 1957) Frequent noir author David Goodis adapted his own work here but the end result has little pulpy kick or flavor. Jayne Mansfield is serviceable in her first major film role, but Dan Duryea is wasted and the rest of the cast fail to register. The plot is a frequently reconfigured bout of whatever. Sorry Martin Scorsese DVD Introduction, this is hardly the finest hour for anyone involved.

Cape Fear (J Lee Thompson 1962) Not too convinced that this is a noir, seems more of a melodrama than anything. Robert Mitchum is fantastic in his portrayal of one of the creepiest thugs to ever grace the silver screen, but unfortunately everything in the film that isn't directly dependent on Mitchum's slimy charms is of negligible quality.

the Chase (Arthur Ripley 1946) Sorry to say this one didn't do much for me, a mishmash of tonal changes and narrative cheats, one so crudely executed that it became futile to even follow the film's trajectory after a point. A lot of promising elements get set up in the first twenty minutes or so, but the payoff(s) consistently disappoint.

Hollow Triumph AKA the Scar (Steve Sekely 1948) Taking implausibility to new heights for the genre, Paul Henreid's fantastically dumb ex-con on the run plans to take over the life of his doppelganger, a psychoanalyst with a scar on one cheek. But not before bedding the doc's secretary first! This wasn't particularly good but I enjoyed several of the minor characters, who are given little comedic vignettes far more interesting than the central plot-- wish we could've followed the dancing valet driver or the verbose dentist instead of Henreid's tiring crook. The ending twist is also neat, if obvious. Henreid produced this himself, but he should have stayed behind the scenes, as he has all the star quality of a wet paper sack.

Impulse (Charles de Lautour AKA Cy Endfield 1954) Brit-set noir that cribs so heavily from Pitfall in its bookends that I had to stop the film to check if it was a remake. It's not and it quickly moves onto other territory, but it does seem awfully familiar at times! Expat everyman Arthur Kennedy falls for a duplicitous diamond smugglerette and complications arise, as they often do. Probably the only noir to feature a scene of parallel parking in the middle of an action sequence! This is minor stuff indeed, but it had a charm about it.

Killer's Kiss (Stanley Kubrick 1955) I know I'm not a Kubrick disciple, so take my take with whatever trepidation you desire, but this is without hesitation one of the worst noirs I've ever seen. A total cinematic graveyard of ill spaces and faulty narrative structures, this sixty-seven minute film feels three times as long and does nothing new or novel to justify its stagnant existence. Are there really auteur or genre apologists for this shit?

the Killing (Stanley Kubrick 1956) It's probably not possible to make a bad noir out of this cast and this storyline, but unsurprisingly Kubrick's antiseptic pauses cause this one to drag its feet until the film's safely in the realm of its crackerjack heist. I appreciated the abbreviated violence of the scene where almost every major character bites it and there's some fun bits of people screwing up the plan just because they had the gall to be personable, but then the whole thing ends with a real head-scratcher, even for a genre built on shaky motivations. Namely-- I'll play coy so as to not spoil it-- why must one character be strongly motivated to do something, long past the point where it's a good idea, even though there are a myriad of other options available to him? Sorry, but "I'm tired" doesn't cut an overly convenient finale.

99 River Street (Phil Karlson 1953) John Payne portrays one of the angriest film noir protagonists this side of On Dangerous Ground and his palpable rage as this One Crazy Night noir progresses is worth sitting through Evelyn Keyes' tired histrionics as the Broadway-bound actress of dubious actorly acumen, even if the film never quite lives up to its furious hero.

the Phenix City Story (Phil Karlson 1955) Inflated in worth on the board, this is hardly the overlooked classic it's being feverishly sold as here and elsewhere. Overlong, didactic, and puzzlingly paced, the moments of violence and outrage that work (and there are a few-- the offhand killing of a black child comes to mind) are overshadowed by those too simple or familiar to take seriously (and there are many). I am one of the biggest defenders of the Code's inadvertent positive effect on films, but Christ, this film features what has to be the least-convincing argument ever made for not killing the villain.

the Strange Love of Martha Ivers (Lewis Milestone 1946) WOW. Upon finishing, this instantly shot right into my Top 10 Noirs! Shame on its PD status for keeping me away until I could see a good transfer. Expertly melding overwrought melodrama with a tough luck romance (surely this is Lizabeth Scott's finest moment) and wrapping it all up in lengthy noir trappings makes for one endlessly entertaining and involving masterpiece. The film's cold cruelty extends to its shocker of an ending, employing one of the most brazen insert shots I've ever seen to drive home the tragedy. Great usage of Biblical allusions throughout the film as well, there's probably a paper in there somewhere. On a side note, at just under two hours, this has to be the longest Film Noir ever made, right?

Woman on the Run (Norman Foster 1950) This seemed like an odd duck inclusion for our Top 100, but having now seen it, I understand the appeal. At first I was only mildly engaged in the fairly rote trappings, but then that twist occurs and the film reveals itself to be just a little bit better than I expected. Other highlights include a wonderfully cruel off-screen murder half-way through that's first dealt with only obliquely (before plot convenience dictates closer examination) and a memorable finish involving a roller-coaster.

--and with this round of viewings I have now seen every film on both our Top 100 and the Also Rans \:D/

Now, onto the thousands of other noirs out there!

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#560 Post by Emak-Bakia » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:23 pm

It’s interesting that you contest the noir credentials of The Amazing Mr. X and Cape Fear in the same post. I can understand where you’re coming from, since neither use many of the standard noir tropes, but it’s the visual style of both – with so much details lost in the inky blacks – and the mood that, I think, make it reasonable to call either one a part of the noir genre. I know, though, that this is a debate that has already been had ad nauseum, so I won’t try to re-ignite things.

With that being said, I’m sorry to read your dismissal of these two films and Killer’s Kiss. I can’t make a very well-reasoned argument for Mr. X, since it’s obviously got a lot of flaws, but, for me (and I know for others here, also), that John Alton cinematography is enough to carry the entire film. There are certain images, particularly the way the exterior light shines like a movie projector through Mr. X’s windows, that I will never get out of my mind.

I found the original Cape Fear to be just a really tight, well-made suspense film. Of course, enough praise can’t be written about Mitchum’s performance and the crisp, high contrast cinematography. I also love the way this movie incorporates the procedural aspects. I think this element is handled in a much more suspenseful manner than the average movie concerning itself with the justice system, because all the legal goings-on are responses to threats or actions carried out in the classic Hitchcock suspense mode (meaning that things are suggested and not shown.) I think Peck says something like “nothing that will hold up in court” when the police chief asks, near the beginning, what crimes Mitchum has committed.

Maybe this is obvious, but I think this raises a very difficult-to-answer question about when it’s reasonable to start taking precautions from a threat that is only perceived. As things begin to escalate, the quandary then becomes one of subverting justice. I think it all makes for a very tense first hour or so. I seem to recall the film stumbling slightly in the third act when we actually begin to see Mitchum’s plan coming to fruition, thus losing this added suspense element, but I still thought the ending was satisfying.

Previously, I have jokingly described Cape Fear as Mitchum’s Harry Powell from Night of the Hunter pushing Peck’s Atticus Finch to reconsider his faith in due process (and even consider murder!) with the sound and visuals of Psycho. But when you look at it like that, what’s not to love? I need to make a cheesy Mockingbird + Cape Fear mashup trailer sometime.

As for Killer’s Kiss, well, my avatar and my previous posts make it obvious how much I love that one. I’ve made some admittedly over-ambitious arguments for it in the past, but that film, no matter how many times I revisit it, will always be a masterpiece of mood to me. The sound and visuals work together in such a beautiful way that I can’t help but be transported to another world each time I watch it. Sure, some might consider my perspective too on the escapist side, but Kiler’s Kiss captures the things that I find to be most pleasurable when it comes to film noir.

To bring things full circle, here’s a relevant quote from The Amazing Mr. X (thank god for the internet): “It creates an atmosphere, you see, a mood like music and they need to find a few moments of comfort that help them continue with their grey little lives.”

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#561 Post by Murdoch » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:33 pm

As some who voted for Mr. X all I can say is as a huge Alton and Cathy O'Donnel fan I felt a great pleasure while watching it, which was bolstered rather than hindered by the lightweight, sometimes comical narrative.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#562 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:08 pm

I should be clear that even if they're not noirs to my eyes, it's other flaws that give me greater pause. I can see both being "noirs" much easier than "good films" :P Good thoughts, though, guys. I'm just glad my posts in this thread aren't going ignored! To wit, my weeks' viewings:

A Dangerous Profession (Ted Tetzlaff 1949) Starts promisingly with a crackerjack introductory montage concerning the bail bonds business, an energetic segment that smashes up against the rather rote film that follows. The film features three of the stiffest noir stars-- George Raft, Pat O'Brien, and Ella Raines-- all fine, even occasionally great actors when bolstered by stronger players and worthwhile material, but marooning the trio in this familiar tale with no one to support them but themselves results in a product as bland as you'd expect

the Accused (William Dieterle 1949) A surprisingly progressive noir/melodrama, with Loretta Young giving one of her best performances (though I still don't get the alleged sexual appeal that renders Wendell Corey unable to function in several scenes) as a rape victim who uses her college education to almost successfully cover-up the death of her assailant. A pretty great film for the first hour or so, but then it just keeps going. The ending is a nice touch as far as manipulating the Code, though

Beware, My Lovely (Harry Horner 1952) Goddamn this was one crazy-tense film and certainly of a piece with star Ida Lupino's own the Hitchhiker in terms of unrelenting menace. Like that film, this seems to lay the groundwork for the slasher genre, yet unlike the other film this one works for non-prurient reasons. Robert Ryan, always money in the bank in any film, gives what may well be his best performance as the wildly oscillating maniac who holds war widow Lupino hostage-- on Christmas! This is some kind of cruel masterpiece and tonally unlike almost anything that was coming out in America from this time period. I think Olive's putting it out at some point in the near future-- add it to your radars!

the Hoodlum (Max Nosseck 1951) Lawrence Tierney's so unlikable in this one that even his own crew cold-clocks him! This flick is short (too short-- there's some obvious film splices in the Image edition, the best version available) and yet meanders too much, especially with regards to the stereotypical Jewish mother who is given almost as much screen time as Tierney. Probably not worth the five bucks it cost me, but I've made worse investments

I, the Jury (Harry Essex 1953) I'd never seen a non-ironic Mike Hammer movie and boy, it's so close to Aldrich's contemptuous parody that it's hard to imagine anyone taking this seriously. Thuggish posturing from the thoroughly uncharismatic lead, looking every bit like Dean Martin's hoodrat brother, and a catalog of abominable cliches and wizened figures waiting to be crudely discarded by Our Hero make this one a tough slog. Somehow this Christmas-set noir was both shot by John Alton (evidence supporting this restricted to his name in the credits, as there's no evidence in how the film's shot) and originally presented in 3-D!

the Web (Michael Gordon 1947) Further proof that there are so many forgotten noir classics out there just waiting to be rediscovered. Edmond O'Brien and Ella Raines get played for patsies by a devilish Vincent Price while William Bendix's laconic detective hovers around the perimeter. Wonderful dialogue-- O'Brien at one point objects by uttering "Over my beautiful muscular dead body"-- and a perversely effective frame-job seal the deal. Another new entry in my personal list of all-time greats!

Why Must I Die? (Roy Del Ruth 1960) Perennial QT Terry Moore produced this vanity project herself, a late period noir about a torch singer who has the worst luck with men. To wit, every guy she gets into a relationship with dies in the film! Eventually her ex and his new safecracker dish Debra Paget force her hand into co-operating in a robbery. As things often do in noir, it all goes south and poor Terry Moore's sentenced to Death Row, conveniently located in what looks like an office building. Her cell has a doorknob entry-- it's that kind of B-Picture, folks! Was pretty sure I knew where this was all going but the film still had some fun with its somewhat surprising finale

World For Ransom (Robert Aldrich 1954) Modestly engaging Shanghai-set noir with Dan Duryea playing a non-heel caught up in freelance nuclear espionage. Some good "local" flavor early in the pic and an interesting (if too briefly glimpsed) female lead help smooth out the multiple rough edges

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#563 Post by essrog » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:19 am

domino harvey wrote: the Rules of Film Noir (Elaine Donnelly Pieper 2009) There's plenty of middling docs on assorted Noir discs that aim to explain the phenom of Film Noir, yet precious few hit the mark. This one comes closer than most, and BBC presenter Matthew Sweet, while a bit cute at times, serves as an amiable host for this collection of familiar clips and insights.
Have you seen the episode on noir from American Cinema? I've used it in teaching noir to my classes and had success with it. Bonus points for Richard Widmark's narration, and including his pushing-the-wheelchair-bound-old-woman-down-the-stairs scene from Kiss of Death. Also has a strong analysis of noir stylistics, going beyond the typical, "lots of shadows" approach you tend to see in these kinds of things. You can watch it here.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#564 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:45 pm

I have it on my computer but haven't watched it yet-- clearly I need to! I revisited the Noir doc from the Warners set again and God it's just as vapid as I remember-- a shame given all the talent they managed to scrounge up. Really only worthwhile for the first minute or so when James Ellroy says something to the effect of "The moral of all film noirs is: you're fucked"

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#565 Post by domino harvey » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:20 pm

UPDATE: I did finally get around to the Widmark-narrated PBS special and I liked it a lot, though even more than some of the other specials it really focuses on just a handful of films. Still worth watching for Widmark's great "But those aren't MY kind of films" remark!

This week's viewings:

Blonde Ice (Jack Bernhard 1948) Leslie Brooks portrays one of the most openly hostile female characters in noir history, an amoral hellcat with no greater aspiration than gold-digging and fucking with every male who crosses her path. This is a cheaply made b-flick, but outside of the silly ending that is no doubt the result of the filmmakers painting themselves into a corner this one works well for what it is

Blood on the Moon (Robert Wise 1948) Yes, it's shadowy, but otherwise this is far more a traditional western than a "western noir." That's not a criticism but an observation. Robert Mitchum (with long hair!) is great as the lead, caught between warring cattle herders and govt stooges in an elaborate scheme of double-crossing trickery. Perhaps the complicated complications are what renders this a noir to some? As it stands, this is a fine, if unexceptional western

the Dark Past (Rudolph Mate 1948) Baldfaced cash-grab in the wake of Spellbound, this like Open Secret is a ripoff that wisely takes its cues from a film which isn't very good, making the bar to be better not particularly high. And this one clears it. William Holden and his amazing haircut star as a crazed killer so tough that he holds an entire bougie dinner party hostage for no particular reason. Only calm psychoanalyst Lee J Cobb can deescalate the situation by examining in detail a recurring dream Holden has. I've seen some amazing films from this decade that exploit an audience's misunderstandings of psychology, but this might be the most gobsmacking of all in terms of blatant fantasy approaches to the discipline!

Don't Bother to Knock (Roy Baker 1952) Man, this is a one of the stranger films to come out of the studio system! Set mostly in real time in a hotel, the film pairs Richard Widmark with Marilyn Monroe in her first top-billing as a recently released mental patient who Elisha Cook Jr hooks up with a babysitting job. Spurned by his ex, Anne Bancroft, Widmark half-seduces Monroe while her charge is in the next room sleeping until it becomes clear she's not all there. Surprisingly menacing and violent for a studio pick, this is probably rivaled only by the Window for a noir willing to go the distance in threatening children!

the File on Thelma Jordon (Robert Siodmak 1950) All the pieces are there for a great noir but this one never clicks: Barbara Stanwyck seduces unhappy drunk Wendell Corey and then when her aunt turns up dead gets him to defend her. Maybe with twenty minutes of fat cut out this could've been a lean b-movie, but it doesn't work as the prestige pic it is now

Johnny Angel (Edwin L Marin 1945) Better than expected minor noir that starts out like something from a horror movie-- ship captain George Raft boards a seemingly abandoned cargo ship only to discover the entire crew missing. The kicker? The ship was helmed by Raft's father. Raft's investigation takes him to the usual clubs and underworld dives well-populated in this genre, and while Claire Trevor is somewhat wasted in her role, Hoagy Carmichael does a nice laconic Will Rogers impression with his role as the loyal cab driver carting around Raft's interminable asshole the whole film

Man in the Vault (Andrew V McLaglen 1956) Low stakes abound in this small but effective tale of double-crossing gangsters and the poor schlub keymaker caught in the middle. The central conflict is barely dangerous, but the film does have a lot of fun using the secondary set of a bowling alley for a novel chase through the pinsetter's spaces!

Open Secret (John Reinhardt 1948) Brazen cash-in on the anti-antisemitic craze of Crossfire and Gentlemen's Agreement the year before, this zero budget cheapie, shot on the world's most obvious backlot with about three sets, surprisingly outpaces its influences at all turns. This is not a polished film-- it's rather amateurish at times, really-- but it has a scrappy charm the more respectable originals lack. John Ireland is a recently married ex-serviceman who visits an insular small town to see his old army buddy, only to discover a criminal conspiracy bent on pushing out Jews and Italians from the neighborhood. The shodiness of the production actually lends it a certain creepiness and heightens the paranoia as the characters find themselves stuck in a snowglobe world of no escape. The later good ol' boy meetings (lead by pre-fame Arthur O'Connell!) also anticipate and outpace the later Phenix City Story

Riffraff (Ted Tetzlaff 1947) Stop. Everything. And. See. This. Film. Though it may not be easy since it's never had a DVD release, which is hopefully the only reason this isn't mentioned in the same breath as Out of the Past et al. Watching this reminded me why I love the genre so much-- there's so much pleasure to be found in all the minor noirs one sees in the process of exploring the overlooked titles, but every so often out of nowhere one just knocks you on your ass. This is that film, and that it is one of the most dynamic, visually stylish, and wittily written noirs ever made and yet still stars Pat O'Brien in the lead is a minor miracle in itself! O'Brien is a man of limited abilities whose long career is testament to the endurance of familiarity over talent, but he makes a surprisingly strong case for his own legacy in this one as a well-connected private dick in Panama who finds himself knee-deep in warring factions on the hunt for a map of secret oil wells. Anyone doubting my enthusiasm for this film will be silenced immediately by the stellar opening sequence-- one of the best opening sequences in any film-- depicting an ill-fated trip in the cargo hold of a plane with such rhythmic clarity and menace that the immediate thought process upon watching is, "Why the hell hasn't someone told me about this movie before?" Well, I have. Now do your duty to yourself

Rough Magic (Clare Peploe 1995) Bridget Fonda makes an ideal noir dame and Russell Crowe fits in as naturally into the proceedings as he would later in LA Confidential in this adaptation of pulp writer James Hadley Chase's Miss Shumway Waves a Wand. Unfortunately, director Peploe does a right-turn into magical realism in the film's second half and it becomes one of the more unclassifiable films to come out of the 90s-- and not in a good way. Too weird to bother with despite its early promise, unless you have a deep-seated desire to see Bridget Fonda lay an egg (no, really)


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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#567 Post by domino harvey » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:57 pm

Doing some Spring unwatched pile cleaning

And Then There Were None (Rene Clair 1945) Classic Agatha Chrstie with an unsolvable, overly twisty murder mystery bringing together a gaggle of character actors to get offed one after the other. Fun performances are about the only thing keeping this silly endeavor afloat, especially when the finale reveals how truly dopey the answer to the film's basic query is. Still, it's pretty watchable and harmless.

Bury Me Dead (Bernard Vorhaus 1947) Dumb dumb dumb cheap dumb noir about a mystery dead body found in a stable fire and who could have put it there, who is it, &c. You know, good questions, re: bodies found in stable fires. Like DOA, this one probably sold itself on the opening scene and then worked out the minor details of being an actual movie later. Or possibly not at all. This is one of those mystery movies where the killer reveals themselves by sharing some minor detail that only the murderer could know, so let me spoil the ending: you won't care one way or the other.

Desperate (Anthony Mann 1947) Stitched together from bits and pieces of other noirs, this one nevertheless has its charms as Raymond Burr terrorizes from afar a truck driver and his pregnant wife, who must subsequently hoof it on the lam and encounter danger and betrayal at every turn, including a memorable detour into a Czech wedding (their own, bizarrely). Mann has a lot of fun with his set pieces and Burr makes a nice over-the-top villain (love his business with the clock in the finale). Standard issue noir, but well-crafted and enjoyable.

the Enforcer (Bretagne Windust 1951) Some nice grim violent passages flavor this look at how Humphrey Bogart's team of lawmen tracks and prosecute burgeoning hitmen. The early passages where the audience is educated on terms and ideas long since fully ingrained in our national consciousness with regards to murder for hire hint at the film being something of a museum piece, but the later flashbacks to some of the hits and especially the clever finale help sell the whole endeavor on its own merits.

the Girl Hunters (Roy Rowland 1963) Proving again that if you're not Ralph Meeker you shouldn't be Mike Hammer, Mickey Spillane himself takes the reigns as his own creation in this spectacularly tone-deaf noir-ish mashup of tough guy elements that no longer have any cultural relevancy in 1963. This film is like those awful Frank's Red Hot commercials with the twerking grandma-- one person involved thinks they're hip and everyone else is having a laugh at their expense. Spillane's Hammer is as bad a performance and character as imaginable, his mystery narrative confusing and idiotic and filled with superiors/antagonists who are either openly sycophantic or covertly in love with Hammer and his "heroics." Plus the film ends with a woman getting her head blown off with a shotgun, as shown by a series of freeze-frames that look like something from TV despite the 'Scope framings. Truly a one of a kind film, and that's not a compliment.

Hell's Half Acre (John H Auer 1954) Ah, Hawaii, land of Wendell Corey and an expired-looking Evelyn Keyes jaunting about in locations that could not possibly be LA could they and participating in half-assed noir antics. The only thing of note in this awful, virtually unwatchable noir is the nice mix of Asian actors thrown into the mix, but even that is just window dressing on an empty storefront.

Shack Out on 101 (Edward Dein 1955) I can't remember what film(s) i've referred to before in this genre as being the worst ever, but they couldn't have been worse than this. Words can not prepare you for this one, folks. Put actual stars like Terry Moore, Lee Marvin, and Keenan Wynn together in a seaside diner, throw in a commie spy plot, and then remove all narrative momentum or sense of craftsmanship and replace it with scenes like Wynn and Marvin having an argument over who has the best legs. Not only am I not joking, but that scene goes on and on for punishing minutes as the two men fight over their body parts. I'm already making this sound like campy fun. It's not, that's the worst part. It's just garbage, poorly made and ill-conceived and even iller received.

Tequila Sunrise (Robert Towne 1988) Neonoir was really in desperate straits if this is what was getting labeled as such in the late 80s. Inane cop and criminal buddy / enemy film with no twist too predictable and yet still so dull that they barely constitute as such. Mel Gibson's accent comes and goes in a brilliant bit of self-reflexivity on the transient nature of the film's characters. Or he's just doing a shit job in an unimportant film, whichever. Kurt Russell looks like a child actor trying too hard to look adult. And Michelle Pfeiffer is also in this film and she looks as confused as the audience as to why.

Witness to Murder (Roy Rowland 1954) Passable late period noir with Barbara Stanwyck rear windowing George Sanders' murderer, followed by him convincing the cops and her boyfriend that she's actually loony and getting her committed. It's all ridiculous, of course, but entertaining in its fashion. Sanders knows perfectly well he's in a paycheck movie and hams it up splendidly (watch his facial expressions in the background during the police conference concerning Stanwyck's letters, they're a riot), and that's before the Nazi stuff comes out of nowhere (and exits just as quickly!)

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#568 Post by swo17 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:19 pm

I actually watched Shack Out on 101 a year or two ago on what I thought was your recommendation, but I guess you were just excited that Olive was giving you the chance to see it!

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#569 Post by domino harvey » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:21 pm

We both suffered through that agony so that no one else will have to, hopefully


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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#571 Post by colinr0380 » Mon May 18, 2015 3:53 pm

Run by one of the co-hosts of the great while it lasted and wide ranging Out of the Past: Investigating Film Noir podcast no less!

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#572 Post by essrog » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:17 pm

For those who are starting the noir list revisit a bit early because of TCM's Summer of Darkness and/or the aforementioned online class, I thought I'd post a few links to noir lists of interest (besides the previous forum list, of course):

TCM's Summer of Darkness schedule
Letterboxd list of Summer of Darkness films, listed in airing order
Letterboxd list of all 411 noirs listed in the 4th edition of the Film Noir Encyclopedia: Classic Period
TSPDT's 1,000 noir films. He's only up to 360 total, but he's marked the 100 most-cited noirs. Here's a Letterboxd list of those films, if you're into that.

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#573 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:42 pm

domino harvey wrote:Riffraff (Ted Tetzlaff 1947) Stop. Everything. And. See. This. Film. Though it may not be easy since it's never had a DVD release, which is hopefully the only reason this isn't mentioned in the same breath as Out of the Past et al. Watching this reminded me why I love the genre so much-- there's so much pleasure to be found in all the minor noirs one sees in the process of exploring the overlooked titles, but every so often out of nowhere one just knocks you on your ass. This is that film, and that it is one of the most dynamic, visually stylish, and wittily written noirs ever made and yet still stars Pat O'Brien in the lead is a minor miracle in itself! O'Brien is a man of limited abilities whose long career is testament to the endurance of familiarity over talent, but he makes a surprisingly strong case for his own legacy in this one as a well-connected private dick in Panama who finds himself knee-deep in warring factions on the hunt for a map of secret oil wells. Anyone doubting my enthusiasm for this film will be silenced immediately by the stellar opening sequence-- one of the best opening sequences in any film-- depicting an ill-fated trip in the cargo hold of a plane with such rhythmic clarity and menace that the immediate thought process upon watching is, "Why the hell hasn't someone told me about this movie before?" Well, I have. Now do your duty to yourself
The stars are still aligning for this genre list redux, as this will be coming out via the Warner Archives next week for those without access to back-alley sources. It is essential for this list!

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#574 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:49 pm

I've created a guide to just under a thousand films considered "Noirs" made between 1940 and 1969 here

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Re: The Noir List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#575 Post by YnEoS » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:48 pm

TCM Summer of Darkness Week 1

I meant to get started prepping for this a long time ago, but it seems I've just about run out of time, so I'm going to try and watch as many of TCM's Summer of Darkness screenings as possible, so hopefully I can spend more of the list project watching people's recommendations rather than schooling myself up on the essential films.

I may be somewhat of a hostile viewer to some of these, because I don't think I am a big fan of the typical noir plot. But I do enjoy some of great films in the genre, and I haven't seen a whole wide variety of these, so I'll try to go in with an open mind and hopefully be pleasantly surprised with what I find.


So this first week of films on TCM seemed to be focused on early noirs when the style was still partially formed and some of these films are still rooted in the gangster genre. Later on they also showed several post-war noirs all set in San Francisco.

Precursors to Noir

M (Fritz Lang, 1931) - unviewed

La Bête Humaine (Jean Renoir, 1938) - unviewed

1940-1942

The Letter (William Wyler, 1940) – This was really well constructed noir plot, and I especially liked that there was a lot of emphasis on characters pauses, glances, and nervous hand gestures. My main problem is that the dramatic core of most of this film is the lawyer character’s inner struggle to help a client he knows he’s guilty, and frankly I didn’t think the film did much to make any of the characters especially interesting, so while I could appreciate the plot construction, I was never really personally involved with what was at stake for any of the characters.

Stranger on the Third Floor (Boris Ingster, 1940) – So I think I had heard the reputation of this film was having a cool nightmare sequence but being otherwise forgettable. Which is strange because I adored the beginning of this film with the quick witty, intro to the young couple and their future happiness soon dampened by the knowledge that it would be at the cost of someone else’s misfortune. I don’t really like heavy handed expressionist visuals depicting character’s internal deterioration, so I was getting set up for the nightmare scene to ruin all good graces the movie had built up til then. But ironically I thought it worked really well because the montage is so ridiculous that it heightens the surrealism of the scene that follows in that we’re prepared to think the character is being overly paranoid only to realize the worst is true. Awesome to see both characters in our main couple get involved in the investigation too. Basically I loved the hell out of this movie.

High Sierra (Raoul Walsh, 1941)– I thought all the performances and every scene in this movie were well done, but the overall film didn't really resonate with me too strongly. What I think kind of went wrong is that the plotline with Bogart trying to marry the club-footed girl was so delightfully creepy, but it could’ve been completely removed and the film would've still made complete sense without it. Not that I think it would’ve been a better film without it, but when we get to the great big set piece finale I was left feeling a little cheated like this wasn’t really paying off everything that had happened to the characters previously. But still a pretty cool early example of the genre.

The Maltese Falcon (John Huston, 1941) - unviewed

Journey Into Fear (Norman Foster, 1942) – I watched this without knowing that it was a butchered edit of some supposed lost masterpiece and I had a lot of fun. Maybe certain plot points could've been made more clear, but overall I was along for the ride and loved all the twists and suspense. And what a finale!

Johnny Eager (Melvyn Leroy, 1942) – This movie didn’t really show it’s noir colors til the very very end, and that ended up being a big plus in my book. I just loved all the world building and side characters that fill this movie and the elaborate slow development of the various relationships. I really like when the inevitable downfall of the characters in noir plots isn’t so tortuously stretched out the final 1/3 of the movie, cause that kind of stuff doesn’t really sustain my interest for that long. I much prefer the elaborate build up and quick payoff as exemplified here.

Set in San Francisco

Nora Prentiss (Vincent Sherman, 1947) – I kind of went through some weird feelings throughout this film that probably shed more light on my own prejudices against the genre than the film itself. Basically at first I was really intrigued by the slow developing of the relationship between our main character and the "femme fatale", and was delighted that she wasn’t some evil seductress but their relationship seemed to evolve naturally. But then later on I started thinking “this feels more natural compared to other noirs I've seen, but what makes it stand out from the shadow of something like Brief Encounter?”. And then once the noir plot devices started kicking in my attitude was more like “oh great, Brief Encounter where the characters act like idiots and unnecessarily fling themselves into ridiculous situations, what fun”. But then the finale of this film was kind of fantastic and had emotions that you really could only reach with zany noir plot devices. So maybe I’m just an impatient fussypants and there’s something here, though I still think if the film went through the noir plot machinations a bit faster, the end result would’ve been more enjoyable.

Woman on the Run (Norman Foster, 1950) - Really wonderful performance from Anna Sheridan. Loved the construction of setting up this really worn down relationship that we don't see anything of in the beginning, then throughout the course of the investigation we learn more about it's history and suddenly wanting to see these two characters reunited. Nice fast pace with lots of great intrigue, tension and good witty dialog. And an appropriately great finale.

Dark Passage (Delmer Daves, 1947) – Interesting and captivating, but I think would’ve enjoyed more Bogart Bacall interaction instead of the POV device throughout the beginning of the film.

Born to Kill (Robert Wise, 1947) – This was pretty grim stuff, some good characters and overall felt pretty well constructed. I liked this one quite a bit, but as always when the characters seem irrevocably doomed, I start to lose interest, and there wasn't quite enough in here to keep me involved towards the end.

Neo Noir

L.A. Confidential (Curtis Hanson, 1997) - unviewed
Last edited by YnEoS on Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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