Marvel Comics on Film

Discuss films of the 21st century including current cinema, current filmmakers, and film festivals.
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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#226 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:24 am

Precisely the opposite for me. I like a lot KKBB, and quite liked The Nice Guys too, while I think IM3 is amongst the worst MCU movie (thoguh IM2 is even worse) and just a bad movie full stop. It's stupid, poorly paced, not very well written, with not only poor villains but a very poor use of the comic book mythology, all this to end up on a 2hr+ movie that felt endless and predictable to death.

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Lost Highway
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#227 Post by Lost Highway » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:29 am

tenia wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:24 am
Precisely the opposite for me. I like a lot KKBB, and quite liked The Nice Guys too, while I think IM3 is amongst the worst MCU movie (thoguh IM2 is even worse) and just a bad movie full stop. It's stupid, poorly paced, not very well written, with not only poor villains but a very poor use of the comic book mythology, all this to end up on a 2hr+ movie that felt endless and predictable to death.
No surprise there then. ;)

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#228 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:45 am

"Surprisingly", yes, it seems to make sense, in a way.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#229 Post by nitin » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:20 am

Nice Guys, then Iron Man 3 and then KKBB for me, all though I like all of them, and love neither.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#230 Post by cdnchris » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:48 am

Eh, I like them all.

Edit: Also I have to give Marvel and Disney some credit for what they allowed Black
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to do with Mandarin. I know that really pissed off fans but it was funny little surprise on my end.

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#231 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:02 am

It was a surprise, but I don't think it did much within the movie except being some kind of gimmick. It seems smart just for the sake of it, and I would have preferred a movie less pretentious regarding this kind of inside joke but more focused on being a tighter entertainment.
I also pretty much HATED all the part with the kid, so that certainly didn't help.

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knives
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#232 Post by knives » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:17 am

It's certainly not a gimmick as a huge part of the film's themes rest upon that reveal. It really emphasizes the constructed way we look at bad and good which has arguably been Black's main running theme since Lethal Weapon.

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#233 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:55 am

But does it ? I mean, did people really reconsider where this character's morality is ? I'm not sure. The movie doesn't treat this, or at least not enough. It would have required much more finesse to make this character edgier than it ends up truly being. Instead, it weights on the movie, just like the forced buddy movie with the unbearable kid, or having Tony repeatedly failing to get in an armored suit : it might be a good idea on the paper, but the execution isn't good.

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knives
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#234 Post by knives » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:01 pm

I didn't mention morality, in fact I'd argue the film is fairly unconcerned with that as none of Tony's lesson are moral in nature. Rather the movie's concept of good and bad is that each can disguise itself to look like the other making it unclear that anything certain can be established. Part of Tony's PTSD is presented through an inability to trust reality. The reveal makes it clear that the situation isn't either or with too much indifference out there for the suits of bad and good being just that. You don't need to be edgy, whatever that means, to say good things don't have to pretty and bad things don't have to be ugly. If anything that's one of the first lessons childrens' stories teach. As to your two other complaints, well, it's unfortunate they don't work for you, but they work for me so shrug.

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Kirkinson
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#235 Post by Kirkinson » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Chloe Zhao (!) will direct Marvel's The Eternals
Variety wrote:Created by Jack Kirby, the story of “The Eternals” is set millions of years ago when the cosmic beings known as the Celestials genetically experimented on humans, creating the super-powered individuals as well as more villainous off-shoots known as the Deviants.

The two groups went on to battle each other throughout history to see which would eventually become the ultimate race.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#236 Post by dda1996a » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:36 pm

Have seen neither of her films but I dont think ive ever seen a theoretically larger discrepancy between a director's style and what is asked of her.
Will she find someone who was experimented on and cast them? Will this be the first naturalistic and realistic Marvel film? So many questions

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#237 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Jesus... good for her, financially speaking at least, but this is just a shade off from an Onion headline satirizing how the superhero-industrial complex swallows all potential talent like a black hole.

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McCrutchy
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#238 Post by McCrutchy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:00 am


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Never Cursed
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#239 Post by Never Cursed » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:16 am

Venom has been received pretty harshly by critics and is on track to be the worst-reviewed superhero movie since Suicide Squad, which it is only two points above on Rotten Tomatoes.

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domino harvey
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#240 Post by domino harvey » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:59 am

Probably worth mentioning that the bad reviews are viciously bad, describing the audience laughing nonstop at unintentionally funny moments and more than one critic saying it will be the next Wicker Man remake. Apparently Hardy also makes out with the symbiote at one point WTF? Maybe this, not Life Itself, is this year's Book of Henry

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#241 Post by tenia » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:21 am

The last time I remember about a such a debacle for a super hero related movie was... Suicide Squad. And we all know the quality level of this one...
Here is a movie that spent months being marketed as a grim R-rated Tom Hardy starring super hero movie, which is now being schizophrenically marketed as a family PG-13 movie that even Tom Hardy bashes for the scenes deleted from it and get reframed by a co-actor straight on a promo interview.
At least, it setup the expectations right.

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Dr Amicus
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#242 Post by Dr Amicus » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:31 am

It may be a PG-13 in the States, but it's ended up as a 15 in the UK. I'm really surprised Sony didn't cut it to make it a 12 (the default for just about every superhero film over here - even the extended Batman Vs Superman remained a 12, unlike the R it had in the States)

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Lost Highway
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#243 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:53 am

It’s all a conspiracy cooked up by Lady Gaga fans:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... born-venom

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#244 Post by McCrutchy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:18 am

Dr Amicus wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:31 am
It may be a PG-13 in the States, but it's ended up as a 15 in the UK. I'm really surprised Sony didn't cut it to make it a 12 (the default for just about every superhero film over here - even the extended Batman Vs Superman remained a 12, unlike the R it had in the States)
The BBFC classification came in very late, so my guess is that Sony was trying to get a 12, but the board pushed back on the body horror elements regarding Venom and other symbiotes that they describe in the classification Insight. Without having seen the film, I suspect those elements are crucial to understanding the narrative, and that removing them would result in not just a few seconds of cuts, but possibly several minutes, so Sony UK were probably forced to release the film uncut at 15 or end up with a 12A film that is more confusing and considerably shorter than the US version.

This is a key difference between the BBFC and the MPAA. The latter has a high tolerance for bloodless horror, while the former is more restrictive, and seemingly concerned with psychological impact. That's why a majority of recent PG-13 horror films are 15s in the UK--they might not show much blood, but if they have a darker tone with lots of threat, they're going to be restricted in the UK (and usually, Ireland, too).

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#245 Post by tenia » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:28 am

It might indeed be that for all the movie's unwilling humor, the BBFC estimated its overall tone made it too sustainably tense for a 12 classification.

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Dr Amicus
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#246 Post by Dr Amicus » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:41 am

Sounds highly likely to me - it's like the original Texas Chain Saw which was banned for years, the BBFC looked at cutting it but the issue was a matter of tone more than moments of extreme violence / gore.

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Never Cursed
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#247 Post by Never Cursed » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:56 pm

Venom is pretty awful and sits up there with Mile 22 as one of the worst action movies I've seen in some time. The biggest problem is the script, which is unsure whether to treat the idea of the symbiote comedically or not. The premise of a hungry, superpower-bestowing alien parasite stuck in someone's body is ripe material for either a moody Jekyll-and-Hyde-style horror movie or something more lighthearted involving the symbiote's relationship with its host, but this movie is less interested in characterizing Venom and more interested in using him as an excuse for ugly and messily shot action scenes. Accordingly, the movie settles for a weird mixture of the two previously mentioned approaches, one where Venom rips people apart and eats brains while cracking wise about the "snacks" (internal organs) he's having.

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if the action sequences weren't all somehow flawed. Most of them involve some variation on "dudes with guns try to kill Venom," an idea that is fundamentally uninteresting since Venom is bulletproof and nearly indestructible. This leads to long and boring sequences, like a smoke-filled fight in the lobby of a skyscraper, where dozens of goons get murdered and consumed by a giant monster without any effort or sense of danger on the monster's part, and thus without any tension on the part of the viewer.
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And then there's the final fight, a showdown between Hardy's and Riz Ahmed's symbiotes. I held out hope that at least this part would be engaging, since the two symbiotes are clear threats to each other. But, since it takes place at night between a black giant ooze monster and a dark grey giant ooze monster, the fight is almost unwatchably incoherent because the two are indistinguishable from one another in low lighting. There's one closeup where each grabs the other and the two struggle for a bit before one of them throws the other around, and I couldn't tell you if I tried which was winning and which was losing because of how dark the frame was and how similar the two CGI abominations looked.
Hardy's dual performance is the only real bright spot, and even that doesn't amount to much, given how terribly his character acts to those around him. Believe the hype, folks - this is an ugly and unexciting franchise-starter that squanders its ideas of interest in the service of poorly-executed action.

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tenia
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#248 Post by tenia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:00 am

Yet it started at $80M because, I guess, people just go to see super heroes related movies and dont even remotely care if it's good or not.

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Morbii
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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#249 Post by Morbii » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:13 am

I have a pretty high tolerance for Hollywood films like Venom, but it’s starting to sound like I might actually skip it.

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Re: Marvel Comics on Film

#250 Post by senseabove » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:14 pm

Not that this sort of movie really needs any to go to bat for it, but on the flip side, while it is objectively a terrible movie pretty much across the board, from dialogue to editing to continuity to character motivation—even with the bar pretty low for Marvel movies—it was the most genuine fun I've had at one of these in a very long time. Hardy's just so odd it's fun to watch.

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