The Big Lebowski (Joel & Ethan Coen, 1998)

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Martha · #26 Post by **Martha** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:01 am

Cobalt60 wrote:I love that about this movie, its a total send up of the pulp/detective genre but done in such a clever way as to be almost unrecognizable as such on a first viewing. It completely turns the genre's conventions upside down, the Dude could not be any less Philip Marlowe. The way that its very episodic as the Dude's "investigation" brings him in contact with a variety of unusual people that are all none-the-less connected to the larger mystery. Maude Lebowski makes an unlikely "femme fatal" entering the story with her own agenda and unclear intentions. Even the "big" Lebowski being confined to his wheel chair in his cavernous mansion with a young trophy wife who is known to galavant around town is reminiscent of the wheel chair bound old man from Chandlers "The Big Sleep" who's daughter is something of a hellion. We even get a POV shot of the Dude as he slips into unconsciousness. I just regret that I discovered this film when it went to cable and not when it first hit the theaters.

I don't want to get too much into literary criticism here, but there are critics who make strong cases for Marlowe being more like Lebowski than you think-- if you read the books carefully, he can be interpreted as fairly incompetent, succeeding almost by accident.

There are more Chandler connections than just the instigator in the wheelchair-- for example the trip out of town to see a suspect where the "detective" finds himself totally out of his depth, is drugged, abused/threatened by a local cop and tossed out on the street is straight out of one of the novels, but I'm fucked if I can remember which one (I'm out of town and can't check my books). I think it's the one with the totally sketchy "doctor" who has the massive bodyguard that Marlowe calls The Indian (or something like that), but I'm not 100% sure.

Cobalt60 · #27 Post by **Cobalt60** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:40 am

I have certainly not read near enough Chandler to get all the references. I've only read maybe 2 of the novels and a few short stories. I'd love to see a really in-depth exploration of the film from that aspect.

Polybius · #28 Post by **Polybius** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:55 pm

Martha wrote:[...] for example the trip out of town to see a suspect where the "detective" finds himself totally out of his depth, is drugged, abused/threatened by a local cop and tossed out on the street is straight out of one of the novels, but I'm fucked if I can remember which one (I'm out of town and can't check my books). I think it's the one with the totally sketchy "doctor" who has the massive bodyguard that Marlowe calls The Indian (or something like that), but I'm not 100% sure.

Farewell, My Lovely.

Marlowe is sort of a bozo, but I think Chandler writes him that way with a wry sense of humor, not as a subtle belittling of him. I think he sees him as a projection of his alter ego and thus makes him more human and vulnerable, all too aware of his limitations. Sort of like Jim Rockford. An early anti-hero.

Chandler always despised those sort of 2 dimensional detectives that populated Agatha Christie stories, forver gathering all the suspects together for an unveiling of some sort of lame deus ex machina.

Martha · #29 Post by **Martha** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:15 pm

That's it, Polybius-- thanks. And I agree with your assessment of Chandler's opinion of Marlowe; the character is so appealing and lovable at least partly because of his failures, and his insanely insistent optimism about humanity in the face of constant horrors. That said, I've always read Chandler for atmosphere first with plot a distant second (and, since the guy is my favorite author of all time, that's definitely not an insult). He was a true genius of mood, I think, and of character.

Topic: I'm a brother shamus!

#30 Post by **cdnchris** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:30 pm

Like an Irish Monk?

Polybius · #31 Post by **Polybius** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:26 am

Martha wrote: That said, I've always read Chandler for atmosphere first with plot a distant second (and, since the guy is my favorite author of all time, that's definitely not an insult). He was a true genius of mood, I think, and of character.

Me, too, but that's mostly what I read fiction (and watch movies) for: settings, characters and dialogue.

Fletch F. Fletch · #32 Post by **Fletch F. Fletch** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:52 am

Gordon McMurphy wrote:I'm not surprised that our own Fletch F. Fletch is a fan of this film, as it is a great addition to detective-comedy sub-genre, along with Altman's, The Long Goodbye - "Who's in there? J. Edgar Hoover in there?". In fact, all films have great one-liners/catchphrases.

Agreed. And the Coens have said in interviews that The Long Goodbye is the favorite Altman film so obviously it was an influence. Like with Altman's film, the Coens turn the private eye genre on its ear. In many respects the mystery of the missing Bunny Lebowski is really immaterial to all the odd characters that the Dude meets. I think that is one of the joys of watching this movie -- how the Dude interacts with everyone else around him.

Almost every Chevy line in Fletch is gold: I quote from that film frequently, to the amusement/bewilderment of others. The Fletch DVD went OOP last year, so maybe a SE for it, too is in the works.

That would be sweet! One can only hope. There used to be a really excellent British film mag called Neon that in every issue would ask celebrities what their favorite Chevy Chase film was and most would invariably say Fletch.

I really hope that we get a Bridges-Goodman commentary, which would be a riot, I'm sure.

That would be very cool. And Bridges has done a commentary before... a pretty funny one with James Woods for Against All Odds so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

flyonthewall2983 · #33 Post by **flyonthewall2983** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:57 pm

He also did one with Mark Pellington on the Arlington Road (massively underrated movie) DVD.

jorencain · #34 Post by **jorencain** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Martha wrote:Topic: I'm a brother shamus!

"An Irish monk??"
I don't know why, but that's my favorite line (out of the thousands of great lines) in that movie. The confusion in The Dude's face when he says that, and the conclusion that he draws is so ridiculous...I can't wait for this Special Edition =D>

Lino · #35 Post by **Lino** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:21 am

From DavisDVD:

Universal has still to issue full specs for The Big Lebowski: Collector's Edition disc we broke last week. However, we can tell you what goodies are going to be included with the Collector's Edition Gift Box. For $49.98 you'll get a set of "Big Lebowski" coasters (for White Russians, natch), playing cards and a shammy towel. For that much money, a better gift set should have included a ferret, a ringer of dirty undies and an actual toe

jorencain · #36 Post by **jorencain** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:37 pm

I just watched "Murder, My Sweet" from the Warner Film Noir Collection. The blackouts/dream sequences/trophy wife/and the way Marlowe is dragged along by everyone who's offering him money are all so obviously an influence on "The Big Lebowski", as everyone has been saying. What a great movie that is, and the dialogue is so clever.

So, nothing new to add, I'm afraid, but I wanted to chime in anyway.

Polybius · #37 Post by **Polybius** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:26 pm

Murder, My Sweet is based on Farewell, My Lovely.

I know it was retitled for the US market, but I have no idea why.

#38 Post by **zedz** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:37 pm

Polybius wrote:Murder, My Sweet is based on Farewell, My Lovely.

I know it was retitled for the US market, but I have no idea why.

Because it starred musical veteran Dick Powell in an uncharacteristically gritty role, and with the original title it would have sounded like another lightweight musical.

AZAI · #39 Post by **AZAI** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am

the "Achiever's Edition Gift Set" includes: The Big Lebowski Bowling Shammy Towel, Coasters that include photos and quotable lines from the movie and Photo Cards from Jeff Bridges' personal collection.

like the name, would like the towel

richast2 · #40 Post by **richast2** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:38 pm

my favorite scene in the movie is the part where he gets thrown out of the cab for complaining about the Eagles. It's really the icing on top of the cake for that particular evening in the Dude's life. Plus, I really fucking hate the Eagles.

devlinnn · #41 Post by **devlinnn** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:04 am

It will never happen, but this would be one occasion where a cast commentary 'in character' might work. I can only think of Spinal Tap where it has been done before, but to have The Dude, Walter, Donny (from the bleachers), Jesus and all the rest riff off each other would be awesome.

Fletch F. Fletch · #42 Post by **Fletch F. Fletch** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:29 am

devlinnn wrote:It will never happen, but this would be one occasion where a cast commentary 'in character' might work. I can only think of Spinal Tap where it has been done before, but to have The Dude, Walter, Donny (from the bleachers), Jesus and all the rest riff off each other would be awesome.

Oh, i know. The mind boggles at the fun they could have...

The Dude: This is the scene where the Nihilists threatened to cut off my Johnson.

Donnie: Why do you need that Dude?

Walter: Shut the fuck up, Donnie!!!!

And so on....

Martha · #43 Post by **Martha** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:30 am

Dude, dead men don't do commentary. If they're in character, there's no, um, character that's dead. (I tried to spoiler tag but it didn't work. What's going on?) Sad.

Godot · #44 Post by **Godot** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:17 pm

Martha wrote:Dude, dead men don't do commentary.

What about

SpoilerShow

(a Billy Wilder 1950 film)?

That's a running commentary by a dead character, before there were separate commentary audio tracks.

Uh oh, my spoiler tag didn't work either.
Sorry, hope that didn't spoil the movie for anyone.

There's also

SpoilerShow

(a Sam Mendes 1999 film)

, and

SpoilerShow

(a Jim Thompson 1953 novel)

.

Martha · #45 Post by **Martha** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:34 pm

Yeah, but those are REAL movies, not pretend commentary tracks. Jeez.

Godot · #46 Post by **Godot** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:44 pm

Sorry, Martha.
I should have put a

at the end of my post, since I was taking your serious comment and veering it into an equally serious (but ultimately absurd) tangent, Walter-style.
I just hate those fucking emoticons.

This is a movie that baffled me on first viewing, leading me to think the Coens had clearly "lost it" (as I now think after seeing Ladykillers

). But since I thought that after Hudsucker

and Fargo

, which I've slowly come to appreciate, I gave it another chance. On subsequent viewings it's humor and Chandler references are more apparent to me

, and spending the last 7 years in SoCal also helps

. It really evokes the CA feel for me, the "taking lightly that which the world is serious about, and taking seriously that which the world dismisses" (to paraphrase Lin Yu Tang) lifestyle that's so prevalent in places like Laguna Beach and Ventura. 8-)

#47 Post by **cdnchris** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:04 pm

Godot wrote:It really evokes the CA feel for me...

Right down to the In & Out.

"They make good burgers, Walter"
"Shut the fuck up, Donnie!"

barnyard078 · #48 Post by **barnyard078** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:45 pm

If you go to davisdvd.com, they have a picture of the special features menu for the new DVD.

To sum them up: lame.

dx23 · #49 Post by **dx23** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:21 am

To sum them up: lame.

Like all the recently released Universal titles. The Jerk, Halk Baked and several others have almost no extras and the ones they have are complete and unecessary fluff. Add Lebowski to that list.

yumitree · #50 Post by **yumitree** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:39 am

christ, they don't even have the interview with the cohen's from the original disc.