Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)

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Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Citizen Kane

#101 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:30 am

To put it in perspective, I should perhaps emphasise my parents left for the pub at 10pm no matter what they were watching (and this was long before home VCRs). If they were ready a few minutes early, they'd sit watching the clock with their coats on! I suppose it was their not wanting to drink (or spend) too much - last orders were at 10.30pm most nights.

A working-class family watching Citizen Kane on a Sunday evening now strikes me as a relic of the 1960s/70s, though I wonder if it was common even then. My parents had been caught up in the WW2 and post-war embracement of the arts (you see it in all the 1940s films about classical music, etc.) and self-improvement generally - they met in a Workers Educational Association class. My father tried his hand at various creative art forms, having been denied more physical pursuits by losing his legs at 18 in the war. So - although beer did come before art - art was still extraordinarily important to them.

And, returning to topic, Kane was very much regarded as an "art movie". My mother told me word-of-mouth about it was terrible on its first (UK) run in 1942. This is confirmed by film historian Leslie Halliwell, an exact contemporary of hers who grew up in the same industrial Lancashire town:
Leslie Halliwell wrote:When Kane played Bolton, Kane lost. I turned up at the Lido at 4.15pm on the Tuesday, only to find that owing to poor business it had been taken off on the Monday, and replaced by a reissue of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

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Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#102 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:24 am

I am reminded of watching a broadcast of KANE on a local network affiliate in Detroit in the early 80s. The station attempted to fit the 120 min. film into a two-hour time block with commercials. Approximately 30 minutes had to be cut out - had I not already seen the film (and owned it on Betamax!), I wouldn't have realized that Kane was a newspaper publisher until about halfway through (yep, the the newsreel sequence was one of the ones to hit the cutting room floor). Apparently, the station scissor men still got their calculations wrong because at 10 p.m. the film simply faded out during the tracking shot over Kane's possessions; those watching never saw the furnace or the sled!

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MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#103 Post by MichaelB » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:08 pm

Still, that's better than that Turkish screening of René Clément's Les Jeux interdits - when people rang the TV station to complain about it (I forget what the precise objections were), they obligingly abandoned transmission partway through.

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Citizen Kane

#104 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:26 pm

Presumably turning it off early lets Forbidden Games end in an upbeat manner! I may have to try that tactic the next time the Sex and the City movie gets shown on the television and see if Channel 4 will have mercy on their audience.

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Re: Citizen Kane

#105 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:25 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:I am reminded of watching a broadcast of KANE on a local network affiliate in Detroit in the early 80s. The station attempted to fit the 120 min. film into a two-hour time block with commercials. Approximately 30 minutes had to be cut out -
In pre-home video days, Kane was released on 8mm in the UK twice, one time complete but also as an eight-reeler, abridged to about 75 minutes! (This was quite common with features on 8mm but few films would be as difficult to reduce as Kane, and it was issued by a company who were notoriously insensitive with their editing procedures.) I also recall a BBC transmission as part of a Welles season in the 1980s in which the final credits were accidentally omitted.

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manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#106 Post by manicsounds » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:50 pm


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MichaelB
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Re: Citizen Kane

#107 Post by MichaelB » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:33 am

Jonathan S wrote:
Roger Ryan wrote:I am reminded of watching a broadcast of KANE on a local network affiliate in Detroit in the early 80s. The station attempted to fit the 120 min. film into a two-hour time block with commercials. Approximately 30 minutes had to be cut out -
In pre-home video days, Kane was released on 8mm in the UK twice, one time complete but also as an eight-reeler, abridged to about 75 minutes! (This was quite common with features on 8mm but few films would be as difficult to reduce as Kane, and it was issued by a company who were notoriously insensitive with their editing procedures.) I also recall a BBC transmission as part of a Welles season in the 1980s in which the final credits were accidentally omitted.
I still have a super 8 print of Macbeth somewhere - presumably the shorter cut (at best).

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Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#108 Post by Roger Ryan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:59 am

manicsounds wrote:Citizen Kane BD review
Not a particularly well-written or astute review (the reviewer criticizes the newsreel sequence for having inconsistent fake "damage", not realizing that some of the shots are meant to look older than others), but 25 paragraphs in he gets to the aspect we all want to know about here:
Other aspects of the image worked better due to a superior transfer. The 2001 DVD sometimes offered excessive use of digital scrubbing techniques; in the most infamous example of this, the rain on the window seen at 32:30 or so became erased as "noise". It's something you might not notice at first, especially since the rain came in the background, but when you pay attention, you'll see the DVDs rain stopped at the top of the screen, while the Blu-ray showed the water as it pelted and cascaded the rest of the window. The Blu-ray opted for less intrusive methods and looked more natural.

This became true for all aspects of the movie. At first glance, some parts of the SD-DVD might actually seem more attractive than the same shots from the Blu-ray, as they're cleaner and peppier. But they represent an artificial view of the film. The SD-DVD transfer scrubbed away virtually all grain and bolstered the brightness. Sure, it looked more vivid in a sense, but it didn't come across like film, and it took on an impression that made it seem oddly synthetic. The Blu-ray gave us a more accurate and substantially more appealing rendition of Kane.
It sounds like Warner Home Video took the criticisms of the 2000 DVD to heart.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
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Re: Citizen Kane

#109 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:24 pm

The old DVD transfer was also too bright. For example, in the screening room scene near the beginning, the reporters' faces are not supposed to be that visible. I'm hoping that's fixed.

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andyli
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Citizen Kane

#110 Post by andyli » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:35 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:It sounds like Warner Home Video took the criticisms of the 2000 DVD to heart.
As far as I known the restoration on the old dvd was done by Lowry, and this new blu-ray is created from 4k scan by Warner's in-house facility MPI.

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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Citizen Kane

#111 Post by Drucker » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:40 pm

That confusingly written review aside, I am still skeptical/worried it won't be fixed up. But I've put it at the top of my netflix queue on blu-ray. Not too worried about making sure I have it day one.

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Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#112 Post by Roger Ryan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:48 pm

hearthesilence wrote:The old DVD transfer was also too bright. For example, in the screening room scene near the beginning, the reporters' faces are not supposed to be that visible. I'm hoping that's fixed.
Colin Jacobson wrote:The SD-DVD transfer scrubbed away virtually all grain and bolstered the brightness.
The above line in the review is what makes me think this release will be better. Also, WHV posted a clip on Facebook of Kane's death scene; it looked darker and grainier than the DVD release. Then again, they also mentioned the "fun fact" that you can see Joseph Cotten in the screening room scene, as if that's a plus!

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tojoed
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:47 am
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Re: Citizen Kane

#113 Post by tojoed » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:00 am

You have always been able to see Cotten in that scene, even in theatrical prints.

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aox
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#114 Post by aox » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:49 am

Bluray.com

Home Run!

atcolomb
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#115 Post by atcolomb » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:59 pm


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otis
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:43 am

Re: Citizen Kane

#116 Post by otis » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:49 pm


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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
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Re: Citizen Kane

#117 Post by Drucker » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:29 pm

Excited to be wrong. Excited to get it in the mail next week and check out Ambersons as well.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Citizen Kane

#118 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:13 am

Hot f***ing damn that's an improvement. Right exposure, grain intact. I'm almost tempted to buy the deluxe edition just to get it sooner even though I have zero interest in the mediocre American Experience doc or the HBO film based on said doc.

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dx23
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:52 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#119 Post by dx23 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:01 pm

Best Buy is selling an exclusive digibook BD for $29.99.

atcolomb
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois USA

Re: Citizen Kane

#120 Post by atcolomb » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:22 pm

dx23 wrote:Best Buy is selling an exclusive digibook BD for $29.99.
Very nice...but is it the movie only? Best Buy website shows no details of it...not very good business :?

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denti alligator
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: "born in heaven, raised in hell"

Re: Citizen Kane

#121 Post by denti alligator » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:46 pm

Got mine from amazon today, and Ambersons is just shrink wrapped against the already shrink-wrapped Kane Blu. It looks so cheap. Won't have a chance to stick it on until later, maybe not till tomorrow.

atcolomb
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois USA

Re: Citizen Kane

#122 Post by atcolomb » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:50 pm

denti alligator wrote:Got mine from amazon today, and Ambersons is just shrink wrapped against the already shrink-wrapped Kane Blu. It looks so cheap. Won't have a chance to stick it on until later, maybe not till tomorrow.
That was quick!!...mine is just about to be mailed out! When i receive the box set i will compare Ambersons with my Criterion CAV laserdiscs and the TCM broadcast i recorded to my dvd recorder and will post the results.

dlevine
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Re: Citizen Kane

#123 Post by dlevine » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:15 pm

Mine was mailed out early, early this morning (like 2 AM!)...can't wait for tomorrow.

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dx23
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:52 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#124 Post by dx23 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:38 pm

atcolomb wrote:
dx23 wrote:Best Buy is selling an exclusive digibook BD for $29.99.
Very nice...but is it the movie only? Best Buy website shows no details of it...not very good business :?
I imagine that it is going to be disc 1 only and not include the Battle for Citizen Kane and RKO 281. I wouldn't be surprised to see a disc 1 barebones edition at Wal-Mart, since they are famous for forcing studios to produce these simple versions for them.

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Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Citizen Kane

#125 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:40 am

dx23 wrote:I imagine that it is going to be disc 1 only and not include the Battle for Citizen Kane and RKO 281. I wouldn't be surprised to see a disc 1 barebones edition at Wal-Mart, since they are famous for forcing studios to produce these simple versions for them.
And yet, the "barebones" first disc actually contains the only extras of any real interest! Unless they change it from what's on the current disc, you'll still get the commentaries, interviews, newsreel footage, trailer, etc.. THE BATTLE OVER CITIZEN KANE is not particularly good or relevant to the film itself; RKO 281 is docudrama fluff that distorts the truth a lot to make its dramatic impact more sensational.

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