Mad Men

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LQ
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Re: Mad Men

#126 Post by LQ » Tue May 29, 2012 2:13 pm

starmanof51 wrote:
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My wife has long held that at some point in the future, maybe distant future, Big Red would end up owning the whole thing, without any idea how exactly that would happen. Maybe she's right after all.
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I predict that we'll see her assuming Lane's position when the embezzlement eventually comes to light, at least.

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Matt
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Re: Mad Men

#127 Post by Matt » Tue May 29, 2012 2:32 pm

LQ wrote:
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I predict that we'll see her assuming Lane's position when the embezzlement eventually comes to light, at least.
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It's a fool's game to predict anything on this show, but that one seems accurate. I would also predict a big fight, mainly from Pete, about adding her name to the front doors. Something about how she didn't even put any money in for the partnership and Don will turn beet red and remind him that he paid Pete's share.

My main worry now is less Peggy on the show. I trust Elisabeth Moss is not leaving the show and that Peggy will still turn up, but I hope not in the weirdly disjointed "oh, and this is also happening" way that Betty does. Let's see Peggy poaching Don's writers, the two agencies competing for accounts.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Men

#128 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 29, 2012 2:46 pm

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I'm not so sure we're going to see more Peggy on a regular basis, Matt. It's part of AMC's contract that the regular cast be pared down on a yearly basis, and many people have left (or been left behind from) Sterling Cooper in the past and we haven't followed them until they come back to the firm or turn up in bit roles here and there.

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Matt
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Re: Mad Men

#129 Post by Matt » Tue May 29, 2012 3:18 pm

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Yeah, but this is Peggy. The show started on her first day of work. If you want to save money by cutting regular cast members, get rid of Betty, Henry, and Lane.

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starmanof51
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Re: Mad Men

#130 Post by starmanof51 » Tue May 29, 2012 3:32 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
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I'm not so sure we're going to see more Peggy on a regular basis, Matt. It's part of AMC's contract that the regular cast be pared down on a yearly basis, and many people have left (or been left behind from) Sterling Cooper in the past and we haven't followed them until they come back to the firm or turn up in bit roles here and there.
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Wasn't that either a real or rumored AMC negotiating position that got dropped in the actual agreement? From Huffpo: "AMC dropped its demand for a $1.5 million per season budget cut; the preserved money means in part that Weiner will no longer be required to cut two significant actors per season. Instead, characters will be cut if it suits the show creatively."
They did, apparently, get Weiner to agree to cut two minutes out of most aired episodes for additional commercial time (I guess DVD and/or On Demand versions may be longer).

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Matt
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Re: Mad Men

#131 Post by Matt » Tue May 29, 2012 3:39 pm

starmanof51 wrote:They did, apparently, get Weiner to agree to cut two minutes out of most aired episodes for additional commercial time (I guess DVD and/or On Demand versions may be longer).
I remember that originally being part of the agreement, but it was later changed and it appears that AMC is just letting the episodes run over into the next hour in order to pack more ads in.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Men

#132 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 29, 2012 4:24 pm

That's great news.

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Professor Wagstaff
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Re: Mad Men

#133 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Tue May 29, 2012 6:11 pm

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I can't imagine less Peggy on the show, but maybe more seeing her out of context from the other characters like most of Betty's storyline in season 4. It's also not uncommon for the show to push aside major characters if they don't fit into the greater arch of the season. I'm assuming Don's season 3 promise of spending the rest of his life trying to hire her back is still on the table.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Mad Men

#134 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed May 30, 2012 6:29 pm

starmanof51 wrote:I know, and I don't disagree, but some of the behavior was so extreme I'm still not sure I actually believe these people would have done all these things that were written for them to do this week. I either love it or it's shark-jumpy, I think I'm hanging onto the love side.
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Putting possible suspension of disbelief issues aside, the number of ways they were able to play with the varieties of "whoring out" ("turn around for us") was both impressive and a devastating catalog of misogyny. Pete with Trudy, Don with Megan, Ginsberg's probably lovestruck annoyance with Megan, Don with Peggy, probably on and on - the annoyance they all have at the very idea of women having agency in their own lives, all wrapped up in Ginsberg's Jag tagline intended to repudiate it completely - if only these things would just do what we want! So much to chew on.
I'm kind of relieved that I'm not alone in this perception of this oft-putting masterpiece of an episode. After the first 20 minutes I was wondering if Weiner's ego had gotten the best of him and he'd mistakenly convinced himself he could pull off anything he set his mind towards. I just kept thinking that
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- other than Pete - the behaviour by these men (aside from Don) was too extreme,
even within the established parameters of the environment/atmosphere/attitude of the era they inhabited. Then it slowly dawned on me that Weiner & Co. had been slowly establishing their chess pieces to arrive at this precise dilemma for quite some time, whether it was
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Pete's abrupt moral descent, or Lane's ongoing frustrations within the West, or Roger's gradual loss of virility and general confusion over his actual desires.
Yet, even after comprehending the purpose behind all of Weiner's character development, the situation still seems rather sour. However, just as I had resigned myself to the notion that this episode really might include the most distasteful events chronicled within Mad Men's period, I was absolutely floored by the final few scenes, particularly between Don and the three modern women within his life. Indeed, the scene
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between Don and Peggy that concludes the episode might have been the most heart-breaking stuff they've created since The Suitcase or The Wheel, and it's not surprising that it features another confrontation between the show's mentor and protégé. It was also a masterful way of having Don deal with every experience he's previously encountered with the women in his life - whether his biological mother, Betty, Bobbie, Sally, Midge, Anna, Faye, Megan, Joan, etc. - while going through every emotion and negotiating tactic with Peggy.
If ever there was an example of how to save an episode of TV that seemed to be headed off the rails, this was it.
starmanof51 wrote:
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Great stuff too for all Pete-haters like me, whose depravity and dissembling has no obvious limits. He may well kill someone before this is all over (the rifle is already out, gotta do something with it some time).
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I've never been his biggest fan, but after some of the earlier episodes this season, I started to understand how some fans/critics feel he's a sympathetic character. I even went as far as defending him a bit when a friend basically stated how much she despised him. After this past episode, I doubt I'll ever look at him again without experiencing some form of mild nausea.

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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#135 Post by Murdoch » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:12 pm

As someone who was never a devotee of this series, I'm finally starting to see why it has drawn so much praise with this season. There has been such a solid run of episodes that I may have to withdraw Breaking Bad's season 4 as my reigning champion of television. My only caveat is Betty's weight gain, which began as if it would occupy the major prong of Betty's storyline, but now has vanished from the show. It appears in hindsight like a hurdle the writers threw at the character for no other reason than to give her something to do this season but then decided the Betty-Megan tensions held more compelling possibilities and abandoned the weight gain stuff altogether.
Last edited by Murdoch on Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mad Men

#136 Post by ianungstad » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:33 pm

January Jones had a baby during the off season and they had to come up with some kind of subplot to explain why she's suddenly gained so much weight.

The Lane episode was one of the weaker episodes this season. It was kind of predictable and only reminded the viewer that Lane was one of the more underdeveloped characters on the show. For the amount of screen time it got, the Sally subplot didn't seem to add up to much.

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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#137 Post by Murdoch » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:38 pm

Ah, that makes sense in regards to Betty. Still though, it comes across as a weak spot of the season given how easily it was brushed aside.

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Forrest Taft
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Re: Mad Men

#138 Post by Forrest Taft » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:30 pm

That was it? After so many great episodes this season, it's hard to imagine a more underwhelming season finale...

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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#139 Post by Murdoch » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:39 pm

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I liked Don's final smirk, but it did feel like a midseason ep rather than the season closer. Still, as a Pete-lover I was glad he was given the bulk of the running time since I thought he had the most compelling storyline of the season.

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starmanof51
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Re: Mad Men

#140 Post by starmanof51 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:45 pm

"I'm president of the Howdy Doody Circus Army!"

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: Mad Men

#141 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:52 pm

I get the sense that the penultimate episode was supposed to carry more weight than it did in reality, mostly due to the fact that Weiner kind of showed his hand a bit too early. Then again, Weiner always seems to take pleasure in confounding dramatic expectations.

Still, I found this season to be spectacularly executed, even if it pulled its punch at the very end. I will say that I found those final scenes with Don to be almost flawless in terms of visuals, especially to set up the next season.
Murdoch wrote:
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I liked Don's final smirk, but it did feel like a midseason ep rather than the season closer. Still, as a Pete-lover I was glad he was given the bulk of the running time since I thought he had the most compelling storyline of the season.
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Though I was impressed with his overall character arc over the course of the season, I though Pete's actions in the previous few episodes kind of rendered his plot-line in this final episode inert, or at least robbed it of much of its impact. Then again, I guess I can take some satisfaction with the fact that Pete got his ass pummeled repeatedly this season.

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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#142 Post by Murdoch » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:18 pm

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I guess it's because I find Pete far more interesting than Don that I was glad he was given the primary focus of the finale. I think it says more about me than anything else that I've never been particularly perturbed by Pete's actions, even in "The Other Woman" since I thought his - and the other partners - actions seemed thrown in for convenience's sake by the writers to achieve their desired end and the episode felt contrived to me.

The disillusionment of Pete this season, and his coming to terms with disappointment in marriage and family has stemmed both from Pete's selfishness and the hollowness of these institutions. While this is well-tread territory for the show with Don, I find the writers' approach to Pete's marital emptiness more interesting because, for lack of a better reason, I find Pete more interesting to watch than Don, whose response to marital crises fluctuated between agitated yelling and agitated mumbling and grew tiresome for me over the first four seasons. Pete, on the other hand, asks selfish questions, gets pissy, actually talks through his problems (well, moans about them anyway), and acts like a person trapped in his circumstances. Gilmore Girl's memory loss of Pete will be one of the most heartbreaking moments of the show for me, and the fight between him and the husband was satisfying if only because the dope finally found out the truth. Pete losing both fights is just icing on the cake as nothing goes right for him this season (even if I would have liked him to win).

Which is why I'm not particularly looking forward to next season, since it seems like a shift back to Don cheating and brooding. This season he was reasonably happy, which was a welcome change of pace even if happy Don isn't that much more interesting for me to watch than sad Don.

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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#143 Post by Murdoch » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:10 am


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Murdoch
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Re: Mad Men

#144 Post by Murdoch » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:51 pm

After a dull start, I thought last night's episode was a much needed improvement.
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The highlight for me was Joan's awkward hug following the MLK assassination

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mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Men

#145 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:46 pm

Yes, that was indeed the best part.

As a guy who always finds this show to be part profoundly great and part naptime, I've been surprised by the general consensus that this season has been subpar. Seems as strong as it's ever been to me.

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Black Hat
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Re: Mad Men

#146 Post by Black Hat » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:52 am

mfunk9786 wrote:As a guy who always finds this show to be part profoundly great and part naptime, I've been surprised by the general consensus that this season has been subpar.
You so hit the nail on the head here altho personally I've felt the naptime schmaltz has increased this season. I have no idea, nor has it been explained what his attraction to Linda Cardellini's character is. That said it's not nearly as unbearable as the season when he had the affair with the teacher. It's interesting as the show has gone on and they keep covering the same ground with him I've found Don to be far less interesting than every other character except for Betty. Feel like Don can leave and the show would be far more interesting as for instance I find Pete or Peggy's conflicts a lot more interesting than Don's.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Men

#147 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:10 pm

Image

Yeah, no idea what the attraction could be there :-"

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Black Hat
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Re: Mad Men

#148 Post by Black Hat » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:33 pm

Ha! No shortage of attractive women willing to go to bed with Don Draper tho so what is it about her? I'm not seeing the connection between the two, seems like a lazy reboot of the Rachel Menken affair.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Men

#149 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:45 pm

I think it's more about the thrill of the affair than the actual woman involved. Don has managed to maintain an affair with a woman who lives right downstairs - somewhere in his psyche, he wants to be caught. He does not like himself one bit. His only highs come from successfully and suavely manipulating people, but like any other addict, it leaves him with less self worth each time he does it - whether it be at work or in his personal life. Don is his own sinking ship - and where another TV show might invite us to watch him fall apart overnight, Mad Men's focus is his slow decomposition. It's not always the most exciting thing - and it's often quite frustrating to watch him make these decisions, but he's the same character we met in the first episode, just worse for the wear after nearly a decade has gone by without helping himself.

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Matt
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Re: Mad Men

#150 Post by Matt » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:53 pm

My problem with this season is now that it's apparent Weiner is restricting the time frame of the show to 1960-1969, it's become a lot more about the Sixties. I feel like history was always an important backdrop to the show, but now the events of the Sixties are driving the narrative and Weiner is making the characters into reactors to a plotless series of events. Have you noticed how news reports have audibly and visually intruded on every episode this season? Yet I feel like nothing of significance happened to any of the characters between seasons 5 and 6 and nothing of significance has happened this season and we're already close to halfway through it.

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