Technical Issues and Questions

[Peacock]

I’m sure many of us on this forum connect our player to a receiver first and don’t have an issue with lag. You need to identify the cause of the delay, I’m assuming it’s the receiver and might mean you need to replace it but perhaps others here will know.

It just sounds all like a lot of workarounds and fiddling for something that could be simply remedied.

[jheez]

Most receivers should have an automatic setup using a microphone. Hopefully this would remedy any audio delay issues

[Jonathan S]

Basic question, but how do you connect a TV to external speakers (or rather, to a receiver that is connected to speakers)? In the past, I've tried connecting the blu-ray player to the receiver, and the result was that the picture and sound were out of synch. But would that happen if I conected the blu-ray to the TV and then the TV to the receiver? Also, would it automatically take the place of the TV speakers, or would those continue to work too?

It looks like to connect the digital output on my TV to the analog input on my receiver (those red and white cords), I need some sort of converter -- and that this converter needs a power supply. Since I've already maxed out my power strip, I'm thinking this may be more trouble than it's worth. Is there an alternative way that doesn't require a converter that needs to be plugged in?

I can't answer this question though have a related but different and intermittent problem. I connect the Blu-ray player directly to the TV via HDMI (the player's only output socket) and then connect the TV's digital audio output to a modern stereo amplifier (not a receiver, as I'm not into multi-channel and have no other external devices). But quite often the sound from the disc is ahead of the picture. I sometimes use the TV's sync adjustment to correct it, but then the next day I find that adjustment is no longer needed and has to be returned to zero as the set-up is all naturally in sync. I've a vague idea it may be related to the order in which the TV, amplifier and player are switched on or off, and/or whether I've streamed something directly from the TV between disc sessions. (In this set-up I don't think it's possible to use the TV speakers, without removing the amplifier connection.)

In another room, I have a rather ramshackle set-up where I connect a player with a separate digital audio output to a 1970s stereo amplifier via a digital/stereo converter box. The HDMI of course also sends sound directly to the TV but I switch off the (very shrill) TV speakers and listen only to the external ones. In this set-up, it is possible to hear both simultaneously and then I detect a slight difference in timing (but far less than on my primary set-up described above). However, if I switch off the TV speakers, on this set-up the external ones always seem to be in sync or at least near enough for me.

[Matt]

My receiver is maybe too old or too basic to have a microphone setup for sound sync, but it does have a setting where you can adjust, millisecond by millisecond, for lag. Might have to look that up in your manual.

[cdnchris]

My receiver is maybe too old or too basic to have a microphone setup for sound sync, but it does have a setting where you can adjust, millisecond by millisecond, for lag. Might have to look that up in your manual.

This is definitely worth a look. I've never had to use it, thankfully, but every receiver I've had has had this setting, usually buried deep in the configurations.

[RobertB]

Basic question, but how do you connect a TV to external speakers (or rather, to a receiver that is connected to speakers)? In the past, I've tried connecting the blu-ray player to the receiver, and the result was that the picture and sound were out of synch. But would that happen if I conected the blu-ray to the TV and then the TV to the receiver? Also, would it automatically take the place of the TV speakers, or would those continue to work too?

It looks like to connect the digital output on my TV to the analog input on my receiver (those red and white cords), I need some sort of converter -- and that this converter needs a power supply. Since I've already maxed out my power strip, I'm thinking this may be more trouble than it's worth. Is there an alternative way that doesn't require a converter that needs to be plugged in?

I can't answer this question though have a related but different and intermittent problem. I connect the Blu-ray player directly to the TV via HDMI (the player's only output socket) and then connect the TV's digital audio output to a modern stereo amplifier (not a receiver, as I'm not into multi-channel and have no other external devices). But quite often the sound from the disc is ahead of the picture. I sometimes use the TV's sync adjustment to correct it, but then the next day I find that adjustment is no longer needed and has to be returned to zero as the set-up is all naturally in sync. I've a vague idea it may be related to the order in which the TV, amplifier and player are switched on or off, and/or whether I've streamed something directly from the TV between disc sessions. (In this set-up I don't think it's possible to use the TV speakers, without removing the amplifier connection.)

In another room, I have a rather ramshackle set-up where I connect a player with a separate digital audio output to a 1970s stereo amplifier via a digital/stereo converter box. The HDMI of course also sends sound directly to the TV but I switch off the (very shrill) TV speakers and listen only to the external ones. In this set-up, it is possible to hear both simultaneously and then I detect a slight difference in timing (but far less than on my primary set-up described above). However, if I switch off the TV speakers, on this set-up the external ones always seem to be in sync or at least near enough for me.

A modern blu-ray player will hopefully have two HDMI outputs. One might be protected by a little cover that you need to remove. Connect the primary HDMI with the TV, and the second one with the receiver, for the sound. Another HDMI cable should go between the receiver and the TV. Now you may find that the receiver turns on automatically when you turn on the TV, giving you the TV sound through your speakers. If you don't want this, first check the settings on the TV, and try to select TV speakers as the default. If you can't find this option, you may have to look at the sound output options from your receiver, and set it to a manual selection instead of automatic.

This set up has removed any lag that I used to have.

[fdm]

I seem to recall lag issues when using the two HDMI cables, back when I had to. I recall a delay of 120, possibly 180, due to the amount of video processing the TV does which delayed the video, net result was audio was out of sync. (May not have been the two cables, but the receiver had a very old HDMI version.)

A newer receiver cured that, since I only need the one HDMI cable from the blu-ray player now, and my blu-ray audio delay settings inside the receiver are set to zero nowadays. I don't see any settings to adjust audio delay in the blu-ray player.

My pertinent setup is tv connected to receiver connected to blu-ray player, single HDMI cable between each.

[Jonathan S]

A modern blu-ray player will hopefully have two HDMI outputs. One might be protected by a little cover that you need to remove. Connect the primary HDMI with the TV, and the second one with the receiver, for the sound. Another HDMI cable should go between the receiver and the TV. Now you may find that the receiver turns on automatically when you turn on the TV, giving you the TV sound through your speakers. If you don't want this, first check the settings on the TV, and try to select TV speakers as the default. If you can't find this option, you may have to look at the sound output options from your receiver, and set it to a manual selection instead of automatic.

This set up has removed any lag that I used to have.

Thank you, that's useful to know if I get different equipment but unfortunately neither my Panasonic nor Sony player (both bought new in the last 3 years) has two HDMI outputs and my Denon amplifier (not being an AV receiver) has none at all. I didn't expect any sync problems with an audio-only amplifier because that's all I used in my 20 years of projector-only viewing and I never had any issues then.

The LG 4K OLED is very sophisticated and can activate both the amp and player as soon as the TV itself is switched on, but the sync issue still (sometimes) arises. Maybe the problem occurs after I've deliberately or accidentally turned off the player and/or amp for part of a viewing session, or one of those devices has done an auto switch-off. Sometimes I power off the entire set-up and start again to get the sound in sync but even that doesn't always work.

(Re. enabling the TV speakers, I only mentioned that to address one of Tom Amolad's questions. Even on a £1500 4K TV, I find the sound from internal speakers absolutely horrible!)

[Adam X]

Most modern TV’s seem to include speakers as an afterthought.

As fdm noted, audio sync issues in the past tended to be caused by the video processing, and the order gear is powered on/off or what was used when shouldn’t have any influence on it.

You need to have the player do as much of the video processing as possible with the TV or receiver ideally just passing what’s coming out of the player. ie. if you have a 4K TV, it will display everything at that resolution no matter what the player is sending to it. So if it’s outputting video at 1080p the TV will upscale it 2160p before displaying it, potentially creating a sync issue. The TV should have any ‘motion smoothing’ etc turned off as this is further processing before displaying the video. Plus it makes the picture look like shit.

Tom, if you can list the brand and model no. of all the gear you’re using, it’d be much easier to point you in the right direction. I use a basic analog stereo amplifier, and I don’t have any sync issues. It should be a simple fix without you needing to buy any sort of converter.

Last question. I take it your original query was because you wish to also watch TV shows through external speakers?

[Tom Amolad]

Thanks, guys. I hit a lot of other work (hence the slow reply) and the various answers make me think it's not worth the trouble. The basic problem seems to be that my receiver is old (10-15 years?) and doesn't seem to accept anything but analog input. If that's true, then the only otpions are either a (powered) converter or a new receiver, right? I'm not sure either one is worth it to me.

Am I right that a receiver of that age is likely not to have the digital inputs I need?

[fdm]

Not necessarily. They won't be state of the art, but HDMI has been around a long time. Though come to think of it I recall having my blu-ray player doing the DTS HD-MA decoding once upon a time. Like Adam X indicated, your best bet is to let us know what gear you are using, that would be helpful in giving you the right answer instead of guessing about your situation.

[Jonathan S]

You need to have the player do as much of the video processing as possible with the TV or receiver ideally just passing what’s coming out of the player. ie. if you have a 4K TV, it will display everything at that resolution no matter what the player is sending to it. So if it’s outputting video at 1080p the TV will upscale it 2160p before displaying it, potentially creating a sync issue.

Thanks, that's interesting. It would be ironic if what I like best about the 4K OLED - its amazing image quality when upscaling most DVDs - is also responsible for its worst problem. I'll have to try some tests. I never wanted 4K (I've no interest in UHD, at least as a disc format) but even two years ago it was my only option for buying a new OLED. Certainly all the harmful enhancers like motion smoothing are switched off.

[Adam X]

The basic problem seems to be that my receiver is old (10-15 years?) and doesn't seem to accept anything but analog input.

My entire system is in that age bracket, with an amp that only has analogue in/outputs. The solution will likely be a simple one, if can tell us what you’re using.

It would be ironic if what I like best about the 4K OLED - its amazing image quality when upscaling most DVDs - is also responsible for its worst problem. I'll have to try some tests.

It depends on what player you’re using. I haven’t made the move to 4K, but my BD player (an Oppo BDP-103) has an option to set the output resolution to 4K which is what I’d use if I had a 4K TV.

[Tom Amolad]

Not necessarily. They won't be state of the art, but HDMI has been around a long time. Though come to think of it I recall having my blu-ray player doing the DTS HD-MA decoding once upon a time. Like Adam X indicated, your best bet is to let us know what gear you are using, that would be helpful in giving you the right answer instead of guessing about your situation.

Thanks. The receiver is a Teac AM/FM Stereo Receiver AG-790. The blu-ray player is a Sony BDP-S3700 / BDP-BX370 Region Free Blu-Ray Player with Wi-Fi. The TV is some sort of Panisonic LCD -- I can't find more details than that (ACL?). But it sounds like the TV is the least important part.

[Adam X]

Thanks Tom. The TV’ll have a badge on the back with the model number. If you still want to connect your TV to external speakers, you’ll need to supply that too.

Also, I’m curious how you previously connected your Blu-Ray player to the receiver, as there’s actually no way to do this directly without running into problems. If you ran a cable from the Digital Out to your receiver, it wouldn’t work properly as it’s only got analogue inputs as you supposed. The likely result is the audio sync problem you mentioned.

As you originally asked, it might be possible to get the audio to the receiver via the TV without a converter, depending on its connections.

[Tom Amolad]

Thanks Tom. The TV’ll have a badge on the back with the model number. If you still want to connect your TV to external speakers, you’ll need to supply that too.

Also, I’m curious how you previously connected your Blu-Ray player to the receiver, as there’s actually no way to do this directly without running into problems. If you ran a cable from the Digital Out to your receiver, it wouldn’t work properly as it’s only got analogue inputs as you supposed. The likely result is the audio sync problem you mentioned.

As you originally asked, it might be possible to get the audio to the receiver via the TV without a converter, depending on its connections.

I'm the one who should be saying thanks. So thanks.

The TV is a Panisonic TC-L37E5

And you're right -- this blu-ray player doesn't have an analog output at all. It was a backup player (which I keep around, though it's on the fritz) that was connected to the reciever via an analog cable. That's where I had the snychronization issues when I also ran it to the TV with the digital cable. (If memory serves, I was actually able to fix that if I ran the video to the TV through the yellow analog cable -- but then the picture wasn't nearly as good.)

[Adam X]

You’re welcome.
So I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like your original guess was right. With this combination of gear, you’d need a DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter) to get audio from the BD Player or TV to your receiver, as ridiculously, the TV’s only audio output is the (Toslink) digital audio out. I really hate how most AV equipment has progressively stripped out analogue options.

It will need its own power supply, but a quick search came up with this unit, which is simple and relatively cheap. It’d let you send audio to your receiver from both the player & TV.

[Tom Amolad]

Bummer. But thanks for giving it the careful look!
I'll have to think about it. It means getting another powers strip which feels ridiculous, but perhaps I should get over that feeling.

[Adam X]

And I should say you can find cheaper boxes (just search “DAC Toslink”), but Cambridge make good gear for a decent price. These things range in price from ‘cheap n nasty’ to ‘more money than sense’. It just depends on how you want/need to run cables to connect it all together.

[therewillbeblus]

I know I've asked versions of this question before, but is there any shortcut/fix to resolve the problem of UHDs skipping/becoming pixilated after rewinding/pausing?

Tonight it took me about 2.5 hours to get through an hour of The Maltese Falcon 4K, because I rewound a certain part, and then was doomed to some state of skipping/pixilated image-dissolving that needed intervention to 'course-correct'. The usual tricks of turning off the player for a bit, or ejecting and then resuming play, worked somewhat at first, but now I can't resume without the menu or scene immediately going to rainbow colors. The disc is new and spotless.

Is my player recognizing some bad data I need to manually erase, or do I need to let me player cool off for an extended period of time? Do I need a better player than the Panasonic 420? I really just want to be able to get through an evening watching a brand new movie I put in, instead of going to bed late, frustrated and confused, with half to go - and this unfortunately isn't a first (or twentieth) offense..

[senseabove]

Aside from the first two Godfather discs needing a soap rinse and the third getting a preemptive one, I haven't had any problems with the ~40 UHDs I've watched on my 820... I can't say I'm conscious of doing a lot of skipping, but I did get a remote for my 820 that has the +/- 10 second buttons and I've never hesitated to use it, and pausing has never been a problem. Is your 420 still under warranty? Maybe you just got a faulty drive?

[fdm]

It could be the cable, might have come a little loose, maybe unplugging and replugging each end might help. Or try swapping with a different (premium certified) cable and see if that one works better. If you have two cables (like from player to receiver and from receiver to tv), same things with both.

[Jonathan S]

Although I've no personal experience or interest in 4K discs, a friend of mine had exactly the same problem with about half of his. My online research on his behalf suggested the answer was to wipe every new 4K disc gently before playing - centre-outwards of course - with a dry microfibre cloth to remove a chemical film that allegedly resides on the playing surface after manufacture. Perhaps you've already tried this, but my friend told me he hasn't had any further problem since he started wiping them. (I suppose the cloth might need changing or washing after a while!)

[EddieLarkin]

Whilst it's been long known that 4K disc playing is a more sensitive endeavour than Blu-ray, the frequency that therewillbeblus experiences problems is definitely not normal. I would agree that the player is likely a faulty unit.

Maybe you could purchase another one and compare known problem discs and see if you have a better experience. If it's largely the same, you can presumably return the new unit for a refund under a standard return policy (and if it's an improvement, you could return the old unit as the new unit, claiming it's faulty, if that doesn't bother you, morally speaking...)

[therewillbeblus]

Thanks everyone - I'll try some of these suggestions. It shouldn't be about the specific cable, since I changed that up on fdm's suggestion last Fall with the 4K HDMI recommended and it was occurring before or after (not that anyone's saying that, though it's worth noting for myself), but I'll try the plugging in/out. It's funny because the severity/existence of the issue really depends on the 4K disc/company. I don't think I've ever experienced an issue with Arrow 4Ks, had no issues watching Phantom Thread the other day (with plenty of pauses, rewinds), rarely with Criterions or VS' (it might be a small issue of pixilations coming up briefly while the image stays in motion, but rights itself very quickly without needing to turn off my player or freezing) but can be drastic with these WB 4Ks, and various other 'normal ones'. I'm not sure if there's a difference with the disc-authoring(?) or what, but I've definitely noticed different patterns.