UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

[nicolas]

You-know-who over at blu-ray.com is mostly impressed with the Punch-Drunk Love and didn't highlight any compression issues but admits the upgrade is more noticeable in some parts of the film than in others. I guess it's too early to tell whether this is a red or a blue title relative to Criterion's blu-ray.

Do you mean Svet? Kenneth Brown reviewed Punch-Drunk Love’s UHD and gave it 5 stars. Based on his prior reviews, it seems he’s okay when it comes to his judgments. He gave the excellent Gattca and Neon’s Oldboy 4.5 stars. (Not sure what happened with Sleepless in Seattle’s UHD where he had issues with the overall darker nature of the film.) Since the Criterion PDL BD was sourced from an interpositive and when looking at Sony’s overall track record, I’m certain the UHD is a big upgrade. BD Caps for His Girl Friday are already online on the other forum and even they show a magnificent improvement over the Criterion.

[rrenault]

Yes Svet

Oh my mistake. It wasn't reviewed by Svet, but the UHD is also sourced from the same inter-positive as the Criterion. It apparently says so in the booklet accompanying Sony's boxset.

The Criterion blu-ray of His Girl Friday was sourced from an older scan, so it computes.

[nicolas]

You-know-who over at blu-ray.com is mostly impressed with the Punch-Drunk Love and didn't highlight any compression issues but admits the upgrade is more noticeable in some parts of the film than in others. I guess it's too early to tell whether this is a red or a blue title relative to Criterion's blu-ray.

Do you mean Svet? Kenneth Brown reviewed Punch-Drunk Love’s UHD and gave it 5 stars. Based on his prior reviews, it seems he’s okay when it comes to his judgments. He gave the excellent Gattca and Neon’s Oldboy 4.5 stars. (Not sure what happened with Sleepless in Seattle’s UHD where he had issues with the overall darker nature of the film.) Since the Criterion PDL BD was sourced from an interpositive and when looking at Sony’s overall track record, I’m certain the UHD is a big upgrade. BD Caps for His Girl Friday are already online on the other forum and even they show a magnificent improvement over the Criterion.

Wow, I immediately retract what I just said about Kenneth Brown and his reviews

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Craf ... 13/#Review

He posted a review of Shout’s troubled The Craft UHD a few hours after my above post. Brown immediately acknowledged that the encoding issues were widely pointed out on the other forum but then made a 180 degree turnaround and mentioned he didn’t see anything of note, effectively dismissing the clear proof brought up by “videophiles” that know what they’re talking about. Yet instead of attempting to engage with that other point of view, he seemingly didn’t make any effort to understand what they were talking about at the time, let alone re-visit the most affected scenes and shots and get another glance at the encode. The best paragraph is at the end: “As to the forum arguments surrounding this particular 4K encode, add my (idiot's) opinion to the canon, light the fuse and fire away. I leave it to all of you to battle it out...”

This is truly the worst kind of AV reviewing.

[tenia]

Worst takes : board members turn out to be more acute than you, but you chose to dismiss (disdainfully at that) stuff people have ALREADY found out (so you don't even need to bother) instead of including them properly in your review and building it more exhaustively.

Not the first time it happens on blu-ray.com, and basically only Randy Miller properly looks into it.

[Finch]

Andreas on BR says from what he's sampled, the Dolby Vision presentation on Kino's Kindergarten Cop 4k remedies the issues with the bad compression spotted during the HDR10 playback.

[nicolas]

I’ve received BFI’s UHD of The Wages of Fear. FiM-encode, BD-100, DV. Masterpiece release.
It’s surreal how sharp and detailed the film looks.
Truly a magnificent upgrade even when compared to their most recent BD, which was and is still very good on its own. In my opinion, a must for every collection.

What struck me here was how beautiful optical shots can look like if studios and labels protect them from DNR, bitrate drops in the encode or other distorting things we see way too often. The opticals in this film blend in as seamlessly as it can get for the era.

[Yakushima]

Paprika 4K is a huge upgrade over the Blu-ray.

[Finch]

And the included BD is from the new restoration too!

[M Sanderson]

My non-expert opinion is Southern Comfort looks mostly good.

The skin tones in some scenes (but not every scene) are too magenta. It’s hard to say if this is the fault of the film stock, VS’s grading, or that the original people working on the film might have timed the IP to remove the excessive inherent green cast caused by the lush green location.

Blacks are pretty deep as they are in most VS releases I’ve seen, which makes a pretty high contrast and can boost look of the colors. But I don’t think it’s terrible. I don’t know if they’re trying to replicate the look of a (higher contrast) print or what. When projecting a print you’d lose that contrast due to the bulb bringing up the black levels. The higher contrast seems pretty standard for most VS releases I’ve seen.

I do have to say there are some stunning shots in 4k on Southern Comfort. The bayou setting really looks good here.

Dr. Hichcock is more of the same. Looks generally good but the grading a little uneven and looks a bit boosted in my unprofessional opinion. The photography, again, is quite stunning in this film.

I never noticed the pinkish faces issue on VS releases until it was raised on this forum. didn't bother me. for me, what has taken me out of the film too many times, in the badly unstable encoding.

if there's no encoding issues, I'll be all over this release as the film is a stunner and this will surely be the definitive release for some time. as the blu rays by Second Sight and Shout were middling or above average at best.

[nicolas]

My non-expert opinion is Southern Comfort looks mostly good.

The skin tones in some scenes (but not every scene) are too magenta. It’s hard to say if this is the fault of the film stock, VS’s grading, or that the original people working on the film might have timed the IP to remove the excessive inherent green cast caused by the lush green location.

Blacks are pretty deep as they are in most VS releases I’ve seen, which makes a pretty high contrast and can boost look of the colors. But I don’t think it’s terrible. I don’t know if they’re trying to replicate the look of a (higher contrast) print or what. When projecting a print you’d lose that contrast due to the bulb bringing up the black levels. The higher contrast seems pretty standard for most VS releases I’ve seen.

I do have to say there are some stunning shots in 4k on Southern Comfort. The bayou setting really looks good here.

Dr. Hichcock is more of the same. Looks generally good but the grading a little uneven and looks a bit boosted in my unprofessional opinion. The photography, again, is quite stunning in this film.

I never noticed the pinkish faces issue on VS releases until it was raised on this forum. didn't bother me. for me, what has taken me out of the film too many times, in the badly unstable encoding.

if there's no encoding issues, I'll be all over this release as the film is a stunner and this will surely be the definitive release for some time. as the blu rays by Second Sight and Shout were middling or above average at best.

Encoding should be fine. They improved with Showgirls and IMO kept that since then, probably because of the higher-profile titles they’re now doing. Little Darlings is FiM, as was Existenz, so maybe Southern Comfort is the same but apparently the booklet doesn’t mention who did the authoring.

[Finch]

Little Darlings (VS) & Darkman (Scream Factory) added to OP.

I'd really like Second Sight to revisit Southern Comfort but if that doesn't happen within the next 12 months and no one reports encoding issues with the VS, then the standard edition out later this month will do me fine.

Anyone know if the Sony steelbooks are limited stock? Lawrence of Arabia apparently was but I'm not aware of anything else going OOP. Wondering if I should get Paprika sooner than later than risk waiting 6 months for the price to drop on Amazon to $25 or so and the limited run to sell out before then.

[nicolas]

Little Darlings (VS) & Darkman (Scream Factory) added to OP.

I'd really like Second Sight to revisit Southern Comfort but if that doesn't happen within the next 12 months and no one reports encoding issues with the VS, then the standard edition out later this month will do me fine.

Anyone know if the Sony steelbooks are limited stock? Lawrence of Arabia apparently was but I'm not aware of anything else going OOP. Wondering if I should get Paprika sooner than later than risk waiting 6 months for the price to drop on Amazon to $25 or so and the limited run to sell out before then.

I can’t recall any of the Steel editions right now but their Dolby Vision reissues of Labyrinth, Ghostbusters Trilogy and Karate Kid Trilogy went OOP relatively soon and haven’t been restocked. The Raid seems to sell very well and is out of stock all the time, which is why I (reluctantly) placed an order at Amazon for the higher price right now. I planned to wait here as well. Paprika is another candidate like that probably due to the popularity of Satoshi Kon, anime in general and Sony nailing the release. I got an order in with WOWHD and 10% off just in time.

Edit: Their Starship Troopers DV SB is OOP, so that confirms they’re limited after all.

[Finch]

Just placed an order for Paprika on deep discount at $29.99.

Edit: less than that actually. 10% discount and free shipping got me $28 and change. I'll take that.

[dwk]

The rights to Labyrinth and The Dark Crystal are now with Shout, so I would assume those Sony releases are now OOP.

I get making the steelbooks limited, but, since the discs are already finished, I don't understand why they aren't releasing those DV versions in standard packaging after the steelbooks sell out. (Then again, I don't understand why they are so reluctant to break up those stupid grab bag UHD boxsets and release those titles separately.)

[nicolas]

The rights to Labyrinth and The Dark Crystal are now with Shout, so I would assume those Sony releases are now OOP.

I get making the steelbooks limited, but, since the discs are already finished, I don't understand why they aren't releasing those DV versions in standard packaging after the steelbooks sell out. (Then again, I don't understand why they are so reluctant to break up those stupid grab bag UHD boxsets and release those titles separately.)

The Labyrinth DV Digibook went OOP in 2021 before the Shout deal. I never got the original 4K and got that edition but wow, seeing the prices it fetches now is crazy. Sony are sitting on something special but on the other hand I appreciate that “limited” on the cover actually means limited in reality.

[dwk]

I knew the Labyrinth steelbook went OOP before the Shout deal, but since Sony has repressed some of the limited edition steelbooks, I figured it should be noted that that film is no longer with them.

[nicolas]

I knew the Labyrinth steelbook went OOP before the Shout deal, but since Sony has repressed some of the limited edition steelbooks, I figured it should be noted that that film is no longer with them.

No problem. I think the reissues you mean only have the old HDR10 versions inside despite some of the films having gotten a DV version before. I remember they reprinted Ghostbusters and users on the other forum confirmed Sony used the old 2016 (?) disc.

[Finch]

Chris's reviews of the Johnnie To double-bill The Heroic Trio / Executioners

[dwk]

I knew the Labyrinth steelbook went OOP before the Shout deal, but since Sony has repressed some of the limited edition steelbooks, I figured it should be noted that that film is no longer with them.

No problem. I think the reissues you mean only have the old HDR10 versions inside despite some of the films having gotten a DV version before. I remember they reprinted Ghostbusters and users on the other forum confirmed Sony used the old 2016 (?) disc.

Oh god, I had no idea that Sony reused the old discs in the steelbook re-releases. What the hell?

[Finch]

Paths of Glory (MoC) & superior import

Kino's encode on Paths of Glory is apparently pretty solid actually but MoC's package (encoded by Fidelity) is simply more comprehensive (Adrian Martin commentary, video pieces & a booklet with Glenn Kenny essay and Kubrick quotes compared to Kino's lonely Tim Lucas commentary)

[nicolas]

Brilliant analysis by professorwho on the other forum about Satoshi Kon’s Paprika and the complicated process around elevating the low-res, early digital source into the 4K HDR realm: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=206

He confirmed that AI was used to upscale the 720p source, although with the unfortunate downside that the line work wasn’t properly achieved. Kon’s stylizations probably added to that. Still, he considers the UHD the best possible presentation of the film. His text feels like the UHD is a solid upgrade for those familiar with the film and anime in general but classifying it as a reference title wouldn’t be wrong either due to other factors like optimal compression, HDR, a great Atmos mix and Sony’s effort.

Kyle on the other hand was much less pleased with the new master: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=193

Finch, I’d suggest adding this to the red category for now with a flag about the advantages / criticisms being highly subjective. The professorwho analysis seems as comprehensive as possible already.

[nicolas]

Geoff & co. on Kindergarten Cop: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=441

The encode looks poor in HDR10 but the huge DV layer clears up some of the encoding issues. Sound in both 5.1 and 2.0 is apparently bad.
First impressions confirm the same thing about the audio for Leviathan as well...

I received Scarlet Street and think it looks good in DV and terrible in HDR10. The DV layer “rescues” more detail in general and diminishes horrendous highlight encoding to a more bearable degree. This seems to be the same as with Kindergarten Cop. KL’s carelessness is as evident as ever and the largely unrestored master confirms it further, although that isn’t nearly as bothersome as the encoding. I don’t have an earlier BD but all in all, I think this belongs to the “Good in DV” section rather than the solid upgrade one.

[Finch]

I'd feel better about sticking those Kino titles in the Good in DV section if they hadn't botched the audio tracks too. If anyone could report back on Scarlet Street's audio tracks, that'd be great.

As is, I think between the bad audio and the terrible HDR10 encodes, I'm adding Kindergarten Cop and Leviathan to the Disappointing discs column.

[nicolas]

I'd feel better about sticking those Kino titles in the Good in DV section if they hadn't botched the audio tracks too. If anyone could report back on Scarlet Street's audio tracks, that'd be great.

As is, I think between the bad audio and the terrible HDR10 encodes, I'm adding Kindergarten Cop and Leviathan to the Disappointing discs column.

This is what Svet has to say about the Scarlet Street dual mono track, which is more than DVDBeaver: “The dialog is easy to follow. However, in several areas the audio has noticeable unevenness that is not inherited. It is not distracting, but there is definitely room for various meaningful stabilization enhancements. Dynamic intensity is quite modest, which is to be expected from a film that was shot in the 1940s. There are no audio dropouts, distortions, or other similar encoding anomalies to report.”

He rarely writes this much about older mixes, so there’s definitely something that caught his attention negatively. His rating is also lower than the usual 5/5 for most mixes of films form the era and earlier. I’m not sure if you’re happy with his take as a reference for now. I can’t really judge as I don’t have a comparison with older releases.

[hearthesilence]

Oh god, I had no idea that Sony reused the old discs in the steelbook re-releases. What the hell?

It's like when the butcher grinds up the old meat for hamburger patties - "What are we going to do with these leftover discs?" "Package them in STEEL books, and they'll eat them up!"