UHD and HDR in General

[swo17]

you'll always be able to go back to the merchant and report it as defective

But presumably only if you buy the warranty? And don't buy from an online seller that's offering the set at a large discount? (Although that Greentoe site is supposedly legit)

Just got my TV in and can confirm that Greentoe is legit. The only potential downside is that YMMV with the actual delivery and having to set it up yourself. I had a nice guy bring mine and didn't have a problem but I've read some critical reviews in that regard. Whether Amazon's "deluxe delivery and unpack" service is worth the $1200 extra you'd pay there is something you'd have to decide for yourself.

I'm not going to have time to play with this set too much just yet but I have a plasma break-in disc (which plays various frames of solid colors on a loop, 30 seconds at a time) that I figure is good to have running on it in the meantime?

Also, I'll look into getting a professional calibration soon, but if anyone has a quick guide to what basic settings I should make sure to select on both the Sony A90J and the Oppo UDP-203 for default optimal viewing, I'd appreciate it. I know I had to change some settings on the Oppo to get it to output in only 1080p with my old setup, and I'm not certain if I know all the settings I might need to change back now

[subliminac]

Also, I'll look into getting a professional calibration soon, but if anyone has a quick guide to what basic settings I should make sure to select on both the Sony A90J and the Oppo UDP-203 for default optimal viewing, I'd appreciate it. I know I had to change some settings on the Oppo to get it to output in only 1080p with my old setup, and I'm not certain if I know all the settings I might need to change back now

You might want to check out this video made by a certified ISF calibrator who I have found to be very helpful. He has posted in depth calibration and settings guides for several recent Sony and LG TVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WENlzzLKERM

[swo17]

Thanks, although what do others here make of the "Why Dolby Vision isn't recommended" section?

[EddieLarkin]

Thanks, although what do others here make of the "Why Dolby Vision isn't recommended" section?

He does clarify in the comments that his views on DV are limited to the in built streaming apps:

For discs Dolby Vision should be good most of the time. It's in streaming apps that a lot of the content isn't right.

But even then this guy doesn't seem to have much of a clue. He's constantly referring to "native DV content" and that many shows/films are only "native HDR10" but are force converted to DV, which plain isn't a thing. There is no "native HDR10/DV", there is only "native HDR/PQ". HDR10 and Dolby Vision are simply metadata systems, nothing is graded in one or the other.
And it's also pretty weird for an ISF calibrator to recommend specific white balance settings across the board, when he should know that panel variance makes this pointless (and indeed could make some sets look more inaccurate than their out of the box settings).

As for basic settings to go with, first of all make sure that as above your HDMI ports are switched from Standard to Enhanced. And then load up a normal Blu-ray so you can adjust SDR settings first. Go with Custom and then as follows:

Contrast: 90
Black Level: 50
Peak Luminance: Medium
Black adjust and enhanced constrast: Off
Gamma: The default 0 I believe is 2.2, which is fine for a normal or somewhat dim room. Reduce to -2 (2.4 gamma) for a properly dark room.
Brightness: This depends on room conditions, probably aim for around 5 for a fully dark room, and work upwards if your room is brighter. Or simply turn the Light Sensor on, which will set the brightness for you based on the room conditions.
Sharpness: 50 (this is the default Off setting on Sonys)
Reality Creation: Off
Random Noise Reduction and Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Smooth Gradation: Off, but it is fine to use for content that has bad banding
Live Colour: Off
Colour Temp: Expert 1
MotionFlow: Off, or if you want to enable Black Frame Insertion, turn it to Custom but leave Smoothness on Min but Clearness to 1 or 2 (do not go to 3 as this will force the TV to output 60hz instead of proper 24fps at 120hz)
Cinemotion: High

As for your Oppo, it may be best to post here what most of your settings are incase anything untoward is being left on. Obviously though you want to make sure any SDR conversion is off and that HDR/DV is back on (make liberally use of your Oppo's playback summary button, which will tell you what it's outputting during playback). The A90J can accept TV-led Dolby Vision so the Oppo DV should be switched to TV led if it's currently on Player led.

Use a UHD that is HDR10 only to adjust your HDR10 settings (the TV will need to detect such a signal to give you access to the seperate HDR settings), and the same with a DV disc. You'll know if the TV is in the right mode as the Picture settings option should clearly be a different title. For instance in DV there won't be any "Custom" option anymore, but Dolby Vision Bright, Dolby Vision Dark, etc. The latter is more accurate obviously. I think in HDR10 on Sony's the normal Custom option remains, but the HDR options within are now adjustable. Generally the settings should be the same as above except:

Brightness should be Max
Peak Luminance High
Gamma 0
HDR Tone Mapping: Gradation Preferred (this is an instruction to the TV to sacrifice brightness to maintain highlight detail where necessary, in effect what the Panasonic Optimiser does)
You may want Black Level at 49 instead of 50 for DV content, as there are reports the Sony sets have DV set a bit lighter than normal. This is only something you'll notice in a totally dark room though, the giveaway being 2.39:1 bars will appear slightly grey instead of pure black. Reducing to 49 should fix that.
DO NOT engage Black Frame Insertion for HDR content, so make sure MotionFlow is Off.

[swo17]

Wow, thank you for the thorough response. This is very helpful

[swo17]

Brightness: This depends on room conditions, probably aim for around 5 for a fully dark room, and work upwards if your room is brighter.

Are you sure about this one? Brightness goes up to like 50 and I'm seeing recommendations that it should be set fairly high

[EddieLarkin]

There's no right or wrong option for Brightness (typically called OLED Light on other sets, Brightness here is NOT what is nearly always called Brightness by other manufacturers, that is what Sony are calling Black Level), it is entirely dependent on room condition, it doesn't change the image in any way other than to make it more or less luminant, everything else i.e contrast, colour etc will remain the same. The reason why so many people will recommend it be set high is because most people are watching in bright rooms.

There are three disadvantages to this. SDR content is graded at 100 nits, and the brighter you watch SDR above this you're a) further away from the intended look of the content, b) reducing the difference in impact HDR will have over SDR and c) making HDR scenes that have been graded to SDR levels seem dim compared to SDR (as you don't have the option with HDR to increase the brightness beyond its grading luminance, i.e. if a scene on a UHD is 30 nits you're TV is going to output it at 30 nits, whereas the same scene on a BD you can use the Brightness slider to increase the luminance many times over).

A calibrator will be able to tell you at what level the Brightness slider is outputting 100 nits in SDR. As far as I know going off reports it's around 2-5, though I can't quite remember. But of course if your room conditions are not 100% controlled then you'll want it a bit higher anyway. But putting it at the top end of the scale would just be silly. A good way to try and identify the ideal level is to engage the Light Sensor, watch it adjust the luminance down when you engage it, and then disable it and see how much the luminance jumps back up to your chosen level. For instance, if you set Brightness to 25, I'm willing to bet the Light Sensor will still reduce luminance when you engage it (unless of course you are in a very bright room, which is also silly).

[swo17]

Thanks. I can get my room pretty dark, and I think that low "brightness" setting does look more pleasing. Can you speak a little more about motion smoothing and Cinemotion? I'm sensitive to soap opera effect but I also hate judder during panning shots. So I understand there probably needs to be a balance here but your recommendation of Cinemotion at "high" sounds like it could possibly be too far in one direction?

Another random question: I've been using my old Oppo Blu-ray player as a dedicated Region B machine, but would continuing to play Blu-rays through it sacrifice some of the quality that the UHD player would offer in upscaling to 2160p, or does the TV do that just as well and make the Oppo's upscaling redundant? And does it make a difference if it's connected with an HDMI 2.0 cable or not?

As for your Oppo, it may be best to post here what most of your settings are incase anything untoward is being left on. Obviously though you want to make sure any SDR conversion is off and that HDR/DV is back on (make liberally use of your Oppo's playback summary button, which will tell you what it's outputting during playback). The A90J can accept TV-led Dolby Vision so the Oppo DV should be switched to TV led if it's currently on Player led.

Here's where I'm at:

Picture Mode: Mode 3; brightness, contrast, hue, etc. all at 0
HDR Setting: HDR auto, DV processing auto
Output Resolution: Auto
Custom Resolution: UHD Auto
Color Space: Auto
Color Depth: Auto
TV Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Wide/Auto
DVD 24p Conversion: Off
De-interlacing Mode: Auto
HDMI IN Specs: UHD HDR

[EddieLarkin]

Thanks. I can get my room pretty dark, and I think that low "brightness" setting does look more pleasing. Can you speak a little more about motion smoothing and Cinemotion? I'm sensitive to soap opera effect but I also hate judder during panning shots. So I understand there probably needs to be a balance here but your recommendation of Cinemotion at "high" sounds like it could possibly be too far in one direction?

A calibrator will be able to offer two different SDR calibrations: one for a dark room (say 100-140 nits) and one for bright room conditions where you're watching stuff you can't be bothered to darken the room for (HDR on the otherhand doesn't have this flexibility, and you should always try and get your room as dark as possible).

Re motion, the Cinemotion setting is there for 60hz signals that are carrying 24fps content (i.e. basically everything that you stream), and having it on will essentially convert those 60hz signals to proper 24p/120hz. It won't do anything to stuff you feed the TV that is natively 24p, like all your BDs and UHDs, so in that regard don't worry about what its setting is. If you want to reduce judder in native 24p content, that is what the Black Frame Insertion is for. So I'd suggest testing out the Clearness setting (remember, 1 or 2, never 3) under Motionflow, but always keep the Smoothness setting off, as this is what will introduce the soap opera effect.

Another random question: I've been using my old Oppo Blu-ray player as a dedicated Region B machine, but would continuing to play Blu-rays through it sacrifice some of the quality that the UHD player would offer in upscaling to 2160p, or does the TV do that just as well and make the Oppo's upscaling redundant? And does it make a difference if it's connected with an HDMI 2.0 cable or not?

I can't imagine there will be much in it between the TV doing the upscaling vs the Oppo. Changing 1080p to 2160p is a straight doubling of lines so no upscaler should have a problem with that. I too use my old Oppo as a Region A machine for this reason, I never bothered sourcing a region free UHD option. Re cables, you only need a High Speed HDMI cable for anything 1080p/Blu-ray, anything higher won't make any difference, so yeah your current cable will be fine.

Picture Mode: Mode 3; brightness, contrast, hue, etc. all at 0
HDR Setting: HDR auto, DV processing auto
Output Resolution: Auto
Custom Resolution: UHD Auto
Color Space: Auto
Color Depth: Auto
TV Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Wide/Auto
DVD 24p Conversion: Off
De-interlacing Mode: Auto
HDMI IN Specs: UHD HDR

All fine, Auto will be the most appropriate option 99% of the time.

[swo17]

Got it, thanks again! One annoying thing is that the Motionflow settings seem to carry over across all content, so if I need that to be off for HDR then I either need it to always be off on the UHD player or else manually turn black frame insertion on and off depending on the content. The dedicated Region B player though--that I can always have on black frame insertion as it will never output HDR.

I assume "Netflix calibrated mode" is recommended for Netflix streaming? It seems pretty hands-off, even if some of the settings differ a little from your player recommendations. Otherwise, are optimal settings uniform across all streaming apps?

[EddieLarkin]

Is your old Oppo Region B only or is it multi region? If the latter you could just use it as your Blu-ray player for everything, and thus on a unique HDMI port with its own settings, and use the 203 as UHD only, on an alternate HDMI port. Of course, you may not feel BFI offers much anyway and decide not to use it; on that point take note that it will dim the image lower than where you have set Brightness on the TV, so you'll need to increase this if you decide to use BFI, to get back to the luminance you were happy with (i.e. Brightness 10 with BFI off may need to be say Brightness 11-20 with BFI on for it to be the same level).

Netflix calibrated mode should be fairly purist so it should be fine to use, which settings are different from what I've suggested?

[swo17]

My old Oppo is region-switchable but I find doing so a nuisance (usually takes me at least two tries at rebooting to get the code right). Manually changing the setting would probably be less frustrating because at least there I can physically see the change as I make it.

Netflix calibrated has:
Brightness 12
Gamma -2
Peak luminance Medium
Smooth gradation Low
Motionflow, both smoothness and clearness at Min (is this the same as Off?)

I assume these apply across all content. Granted, I don't plan to stream much--only if it's the only way to see something.

Oh, and one more thing--for some reason the main screen on my old Oppo has adopted an odd new color scheme when plugged into this TV, most but not all of the time. It generally looks normal once I start playing a disc, but I did try one that even made the film look this purple. Does anyone have any ideas about what might be causing this?

[EddieLarkin]

Netflix calibrated has:
Brightness 12
Gamma -2
Peak luminance Medium
Smooth gradation Low
Motionflow, both smoothness and clearness at Min (is this the same as Off?)

All fine, Gamma at -2 is technically more accurate than 0, but the latter will be better for brighter rooms. The Brightness level is maybe based off the light sensor of the TV? Smooth gradation is fine to have on if needed, and it more likely will be for streaming content. As for Motionflow though, it's a good question. I would just turn this off altogether since such a great deal of streaming content is in HDR/DV now, so the benefit of using BFI is lost anyway.

Oh, and one more thing--for some reason the main screen on my old Oppo has adopted an odd new color scheme when plugged into this TV, most but not all of the time. It generally looks normal once I start playing a disc, but I did try one that even made the film look this purple. Does anyone have any ideas about what might be causing this?

Hmmm, what picture settings is your old Oppo set to? Particular the video/HDMI/display options.

[swo17]

If you set it to "Netflix calibrated" you can't alter any settings. I could manually set Custom to all of the calibrated levels except for Motionflow, but then I wonder if it would apply the same settings across all content, whereas Calibrated mode might treat different sources differently/better? I'm not sure--I haven't tested out much content on the Netflix app.

My old Oppo is currently at these settings:
Picture Mode 1; brightness, contrast, hue, etc. all set to 0
TV System: Multi-system
Output Resolution: 1080p
1080p24 Output: On
HDMI Options: Color Space Auto, Deep Color Off, Demo Mode Off, Video Only No
Screen Saver: On

[EddieLarkin]

If you set it to "Netflix calibrated" you can't alter any settings. I could manually set Custom to all of the calibrated levels except for Motionflow, but then I wonder if it would apply the same settings across all content, whereas Calibrated mode might treat different sources differently/better? I'm not sure--I haven't tested out much content on the Netflix app.

It's definitely fine to choose Custom with your own presets over Netflix Calibrated, indeed once your own mode is actually calibrated by a calibrator then you will definitely want to use that over the Netflix branded one (which is really a misnomer). In terms of different content, the menu and settings will be different when you're watching streaming HDR/DV vs streaming SDR, and that goes for Netflix calibrated too, so yes if you forego the Netflix settings you'll need to input your own for SDR, HDR10 and DV etc.

As an aside, it's interesting Netflix locks SDR at Brightness 12. This could be taken as an indicator that 100 nits is 12 on the TV, rather than the lower 2-5 I've heard (which may have been on different Sony models anyway). Of course as mentioned before, simply using the light sensor takes away the guess work until you can have the set calibrated.

My old Oppo is currently at these settings:
Picture Mode 1; brightness, contrast, hue, etc. all set to 0
TV System: Multi-system
Output Resolution: 1080p
1080p24 Output: On
HDMI Options: Color Space Auto, Deep Color Off, Demo Mode Off, Video Only No
Screen Saver: On

Is there an auto mode for output resolution? It will still output 1080p but this may make a difference. Other than that the only thing I can think is the disc content is going to be 24fps, which the TV handles fine, but the Oppo menu screen is going to be 60 or 50hz. Maybe if the Oppo is set to Region B the menu is in 50hz, which the NA TV is struggling with? You do have it set to Multi-system afterall. Change that to 60hz instead. If you still have the problem then swap in the HDMI cable you're using with the 203 and see if it's any different then.

[swo17]

Actually, I think I fixed the issue by simply changing that HDMI port back from Enhanced Format (which prioritizes 4K image quality over compatibility) to Standard

[senseabove]

As for Motionflow though, it's a good question. I would just turn this off altogether since such a great deal of streaming content is in HDR/DV now, so the benefit of using BFI is lost anyway.

BFI is moot on all HDR content? Or just streaming HDR?

[EddieLarkin]

BFI should not be used with any HDR content. A side effect of its use is for it to dim the image quite heavily, which can be corrected in SDR by increasing the luminance control, but there's no such option with HDR. And of course, bright image capability is hugely important to proper HDR representation.

[swo17]

Where do you recommend setting brightness/black level and luminance when engaging BFI?

[EddieLarkin]

Black Level and Contrast should not be changed, nor should anything else. Only Luminance (i.e. "Brightness" on Sonys) will need to be adjusted, by how much is anyone's guess. You'd need to settle on a luminance level you're happy with, then engage BFI and see how much you have to increase the luminance to get back to the level you liked. If you feel BFI gives a better viewing experience over having all motion settings off then you'd want a calibrator to perform the SDR calibration with it on, and he'll be able to set it to the proper 100 nits (or higher if your room is not fully dark).

[bfaison]

It’s sort of nuts just how different (and confusing) all the terms and settings are between brands. I know the Sonys don’t have Filmmaker Mode but do they have something equivalent? I think that is a pretty cool concept, and I notice on streaming a lot of movies will automatically put the TV in that setting so even if you have no clue you’re getting a more ‘correct’ picture in regards to AI, brightness, etc.

[nitin]

Coming from a plasma, I really value BFI on my Sony 75x9500H FALD LED. I set it to 2. But you have to bump up the Brightness (ie the backlight setting) quite a bit to compensate. I have kept BFI engaged for HDR too although I would say you lose about 80-100 nits at the top end as a result.

[swo17]

Not sure where else to ask this, but as it pertains to my TV perhaps this as good a place as any: Especially at this time of year I am often emitting a small static discharge when I walk across my carpet and then touch something metal that is part of my entertainment setup. I am trying to discharge onto something else first (like a small metal tape measure on a different table) but that doesn't always fully eliminate the discharge. There are a few times where I have touched something that is connected to my TV (a player, the TV stand, and even the screw on an outlet plate on the wall directly behind the TV) and have emitted a charge that has caused the TV to go black for a second before coming back. It plays just fine afterward but I assume it's still...not great that this is happening. Does anyone have recommendations about how to prevent damaging my TV in this way?

[fdm]

I see the most frequent static discharges this time of year when I touch the screws of a light switch, so that may be something to consider touching first a couple times. (ESD mats (and wrist straps) are made to prevent static discharges when working with electronics, touching a properly connected one for a bit would probably be even better...)

A good thing to do would be to avoid clothing that is more prone to static like sweaters and polyester.

But yeah it can get incredibly dry out here this time of year, especially with the heater running most of the time. Keep thinking about getting a humidifier put in, but never get around to it, I bet that would help.

I have a metal a/v rack (with glass shelves) (and not grounded or anything) with most of my equipment on it, and I usually out of habit touch it first thing before doing anything else. Yesterday I felt the static draining from my clothes (and body?) as I held onto the rack for a little bit. Most of my hdmi connections go through a receiver to the tv.

[therewillbeblus]

I watched my Uncut Gems UHD a few nights ago, and so far across ~10 UHD experiences thus far, the aspect of the format that stands out most to me isn’t the picture quality but the sound. I’ve never been an audiophile- rarely discerning differences with my super-old cheap sound bar- but even on a low setting it’s extraordinary how powerful and well mixed it is. Am I imagining this since I don’t have anywhere near the right sound system to take advantage of the format, or would this be obvious even with my provisions?

Also, while I have no capability to upgrade my TV right now, I have been meaning to upgrade my sound system for a long time. Would it be worth doing so for UHD even without the best TV or is it best to do this altogether? Any options or recommendations would be helpful- thanks!