Abel Gance

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La Clé du Ciel
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#51 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:08 pm

Well, some good news for you all. Re: J'ACCUSE. There is movement. There is a long long way to go, of course, so don't get too excited – you still won't be seeing a restoration for a while. But it is now, at long last, possible for a restoration to take place.

Hurrah etc.
Last edited by La Clé du Ciel on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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filmyfan
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#52 Post by filmyfan » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:20 am

Here's some news on Napoleon. Slated for a May release!
Last on the Optimum front for now, all rights issues which have prevented their release on home video appear to have been resolved: Abel Gance's majestic silents Napoleon & Austerlitz are getting released. Absolutely no detail as yet - so which versions, have they been restored, what extras; all questions to be answered at a later date.

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MichaelB
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#53 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:35 am

The title is given as Napoleon Bonaparte, which suggests that it's more likely to be the heavily cut (to 135 minutes), sonorised 1934 version than anything close to the Brownlow restoration.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but if it is the Brownlow version, how did Optimum end up with the rights?

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John Hodson
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#54 Post by John Hodson » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:05 pm

MichaelB wrote:The title is given as Napoleon Bonaparte, which suggests that it's more likely to be the heavily cut (to 135 minutes), sonorised 1934 version than anything close to the Brownlow restoration.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but if it is the Brownlow version, how did Optimum end up with the rights?
You appear to be spot-on Michael.

I've added that info, and cleared up the sloppy typo.

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ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
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#55 Post by ellipsis7 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:15 pm

Yep Moviemail quotes this travesty as the product description...
A shortened version of Gance's spectacular silent masterpiece Napoleon (1927 ), re-edited by Gance and with added sound effects and post-dubbed dialogue.
Quel horreur!...

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La Clé du Ciel
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#56 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:43 am

Hello again. Sorry for my long absence.

I wish I had good news, but I'm not sure there is any.

Send your anger and frustration in a sealed envelope to…
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Lemmy Caution
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#57 Post by Lemmy Caution » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:48 am

Just skimmed through this thread. Some great stuff, especially from La Clé du Ciel. Much appreciated. I'll have to go back and soak it all in more leisurely..

I just wanted to ask about opinions/thoughts on Louise (Gance, 1939). I just picked up the Bel Canto Society dvd of this musical. IMDb only has 10 votes for the film and 2 comments, which is one less review than is on the back cover of the dvd itself.

One of the IMDb posts laments that the opening 5 seconds of the film is cut, but otherwise admires the print. A review on the back cover states that most of Charpentier's music was cut out of the film, apparently by (or with the blessing of) Charpentier himself, who was an advisor to Gance on the film.

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John Hodson
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#58 Post by John Hodson » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:16 am

More on the R2 Optimum release from www.zetaminor.com :

Optimum have clarified some details of their forthcoming Napoleon DVD, which I will reproduce verbatim, since there seems to be little to be gained from paraphrasing it: "the version that we are releasing is the silent version restored by Francis Ford Coppola in 1980 with a new score composed by his father Carmine. The running time is 223 mins and the DVD has been encoded with a 16:9 aspect ratio. For those of you that know the film, you will be aware that Abel Gance shot it envisaging a three screen Polyvision projection technique to create a huge panorama for some scenes. This proved impractical and so this was only actually used by Gance for the final 20 minutes or so of the film. In our release, the 16:9 encoding allows for the three screens to be viewed as one widescreen for these last 20 minutes as Gance originally intended, with the preceding footage appearing as 4:3 on a 16:9 widescreen"

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MichaelB
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#59 Post by MichaelB » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:20 am

John Hodson wrote:In our release, the 16:9 encoding allows for the three screens to be viewed as one widescreen for these last 20 minutes as Gance originally intended, with the preceding footage appearing as 4:3 on a 16:9 widescreen"
Please tell me that this doesn't mean that the vast majority of the film is effectively in anamorphic 4:3! Quite apart from the loss in resolution, this means that people like me with giant 4:3 sets will be condemned to put up with thick black bars on all four sides.

Anchor Bay's extras are bad enough, but this would be intolerable - so I hope I'm wrong.

Nothing
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#60 Post by Nothing » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:09 am

not intolerable. okay, a bit of a loss in resolution until the finale, but then the finale will have more impact. there's no perfect solution. most people have widescreen sets these days. whether they should be supporting the coppola edit is another question, of course.

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MichaelB
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#61 Post by MichaelB » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:26 am

Nothing wrote:not intolerable. okay, a bit of a loss in resolution until the finale
By my reckoning, anamorphic 4:3 loses about 25% resolution when set against the non-anamorphic variety.
but then the finale will have more impact.
It would have just as much impact if the DVD had encoded the anamorphic material as a separate track and simply switched over to that at the appropriate moment.
there's no perfect solution. most people have widescreen sets these days.
Yes, but all widescreen sets are quite capable of displaying full-resolution 4:3, and it's highly unlikely that anyone minded to purchase a silent film in the first place will be completely ignorant of how to display the picture properly. So why opt for a "solution" that results in an inferior image regardless of your setup?

(Assuming that this is indeed what they've done: I'm still hoping I'm wrong)

fred
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#62 Post by fred » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:30 am

Nothing wrote:most people have widescreen sets these days.
I don't want to burst any bubbles here (I'm sure this forum as a whole skews otherwise), but I know exactly one person with a widescreen television. I know far more people who don't even have a television and watch dvds on their computers. And this isn't because I have no friends or everyone I know is poor or I live in a third world country.

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Kinsayder
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#63 Post by Kinsayder » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:02 pm

MichaelB wrote:It would have just as much impact if the DVD had encoded the anamorphic material as a separate track and simply switched over to that at the appropriate moment.
Not all displays (including my own) will auto-switch from 4:3 to 16:9 in response to anamorphic content. The Spanish Manga Films edition is non-anamorphic 4:3 throughout: the last 20 minutes are letterboxed and look slightly pinched - almost as if it ought to be anamorphic:

Image
In our release, the 16:9 encoding allows for the three screens to be viewed as one widescreen for these last 20 minutes as Gance originally intended, with the preceding footage appearing as 4:3 on a 16:9 widescreen.
That sounds preferable to me. I do not think that the slight loss of horizontal resolution in the major (4:3) part of the film would be particularly noticeable.

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MichaelB
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#64 Post by MichaelB » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:13 pm

Kinsayder wrote:Not all displays (including my own) will auto-switch from 4:3 to 16:9 in response to anamorphic content. The Spanish Manga Films edition is non-anamorphic 4:3 throughout: the last 20 minutes are letterboxed and look slightly pinched - almost as if it ought to be anamorphic:
I cut and pasted that image into Photoshop and widened it by 133% - and not only does it look right, but the aspect ratio is spot on (it should be 4:1). So yes, I think that almost definitely is anamorphic.
I do not think that the slight loss of horizontal resolution in the major (4:3) part of the film would be particularly noticeable.
Depends on your equipment. Anamorphic 4:3 is extremely noticeable on a 4:3 set, for obvious reasons (mine has an anamorphic mode, but this involves essentially creating a frame within a frame, drastically shrinking the picture), and it's also going to be obvious on my Mac - and although I can zoom the latter so that the image fills the screen (at least from top to bottom), I then have to manually re-adjust when it comes to the last twenty minutes.

But thanks for the tip-off about the Spanish edition - if I'm right about the Optimum one, this sounds as though it might be preferable.

Nothing
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#65 Post by Nothing » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:02 am

In the UK - and this is a UK disc - widescreen sets are now the standard. I'm sure the figure rises further amongst those who own a DVD player and even more so among the people likely to buy a DVD of Napoleon.

I suppose some kind of auto-switch option might have been considered, but I can see this causing too many problems and incompatibilities.

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MichaelB
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#66 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:21 am

When I was producing the BFI's Quay Brothers DVDs, I asked the authoring house if they could introduce an option that would allow the viewer to play just the shorts with commentaries in sequence. They tried to talk me out of it, as it would involve mixing 4:3 and anamorphic material.

But I stuck to my guns, and have no regrets - and I'm not aware of any complaints, either in reviews or from customers.

And in the case of Napoleon, I think it's perverse to compromise the quality of the overwhelming majority of the film just to guarantee that the last twenty minutes display properly without fiddling. (If that's indeed what they're doing.)

Mind you, if it's the Coppola version it'll probably have been transferred at the wrong speed anyway (24fps versus the recommended 20fps) so it's a pretty compromised version to begin with...

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La Clé du Ciel
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#67 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:12 am

Sigh… Well, I'm curious as to the timing of this release.

I've already gone over why this version is substantially inferior, so I shan't repeat it all here again – suffice it to say that EVERYTHING about this DVD will be inferior. It WILL be at the wrong speed (and Brienne is now shown at the correct 18-fps in the latest restoration, so this early section looks even worse in the earlier print).
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Cinetwist
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#68 Post by Cinetwist » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:21 pm

Even if the BFI can't release a dvd at the present moment, could there not be a one off screening of the restoration? I just can't imagine such an event being prosecuted/prevented somehow. It'd be a fantastic way for the new NFT to show off its refurbishment.

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La Clé du Ciel
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#69 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:54 pm

A special one-off screening is very unlikely at the moment. The 2004 screenings (only two of them) went ahead despite legal threats, but now there is an actual legal situation.

I'd also point out that both the existing print and thus Davis' score need slightly tweaking due to the new footage that Brownlow found in Denmark recently. Although it would be possible for the existing print to be shown, there is far too much legal trouble already going on for the BFI to risk another screening.
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MichaelB
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#70 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:47 pm

There's also the practical problem that none of the auditoria on the South Bank is remotely suitable for a Napoleon revival - at least not with a full orchestra. The BFI Southbank screens are too small, and the Royal Festival Hall is stil being refurbished.

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Felix
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#71 Post by Felix » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:38 pm

La Clé du Ciel wrote:I feel I should comment on Nothing's point about whether people should support the Coppola DVD. Of course I can't demand that nobody should buy it, but I think it's a shame that Coppola will receive profits from his bullying tactics. He's effectively holding the real restoration to ransom, making people buy his version whilst banning the latest print from being seen.
Difficult one for those who have never had the opportunity to see it. Never has the idea of an eBay special been so tempting. Alternatively, buying it second hand would give the tosser nothing as well. Or let someone here buy one copy and lend it to anyone else who wants to see it. Boycott Coppola's current and future offerings as well, it's not as though you'd be missing anything...

WRT Michael B's later point about the lack of suitable screening venues on the South Bank, a gentle reminder that there is life outside of London and it has been shown in Glasgow's concert Hall with full orchestra, though I was not able to attend so I do not know what the attendance was like. The Edinburgh festival would be an ideal venue, not only to get a wide audience but to highlight the issues to an audience from around the world. Sigh, pipedreams of course...

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MichaelB
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#72 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:39 pm

Felix wrote:WRT Michael B's later point about the lack of suitable screening venues on the South Bank, a gentle reminder that there is life outside of London.
Actually, I was responding to the comment that it would be a fantastic way to show off the new BFI Southbank refurbishment - only it wouldn't, as there's no room!

(I first saw it in the late 1980s at the Barbican Centre, and then at the Royal Festival Hall in 2000, both with Carl Davis plus orchestra, but otherwise I'm dependent on my VHS of the 1989 broadcast),

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Cinetwist
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#73 Post by Cinetwist » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:13 am

For the record, I don't care what venue is used. I just want to see the film and want the film to be seen. I'd be willing to travel anywhere in the UK to see it.

Does anyone else think the BFI are being a bit wimpish over the whole affair? They've spent all this money on the film and lawsuit and they haven't even published a feature in Sight and Sound, nevermind in the national or worldwide press.

Nothing
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#74 Post by Nothing » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:24 am

Well the BFI are a pack of cowards, that goes without saying. I'm just glad I made it to one of the 2004 screenings, a wonderful event :)

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Felix
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#75 Post by Felix » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:19 pm

Sorry re-the Festival Hall, I did realise you were making that point, I mistakenly assumed the other.

I really would like it to be shown at the Edinburgh Festival though and to get the big movers and shakers in the film world to apply some pressure on Coppola.

Alternatively, someone to sue for the claim that Coppola restored it.

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