Federico Fellini

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cafeman
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#26 Post by cafeman » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:37 pm

cafeman wrote:As for G&F, it`s, for me, the film where he manages to exude the most charm. It really feels like his testament film, and I`m betting that it`s actually his most autobigraphic film of all. It`s just a nice, quiet story about two ordinary people who think they get a second chance, but really it is too late. And yet, it`s not presented as too regretful.
This is what I said a few posts up, and still feel that it sums up my view of what the film`s about. Sure there`s some stuff about times changing, but it`s all tied into the larger theme of maturity, old age, of people who spent their lives, turned around, and were old and alone, and of their puzzlement by this cruel fact of life.

Another point of the film, the way I see it, is that their lives are about as fulfilled as anyone`s.

As far as the 'ugly' argument, I`ve loved films that looked worse. I saw this film in a movie theatre, from a restored print, and I can tell you that the color palette looked very much alive to me, though it`s not as visually enticing or painstakingly composed as some of his other films, I feel that it`s visually very elegant.

Also, a lot of attention is given to details, which Fellini achieves through slow, expressive pacing, which allows us time to grow into these characters, and experience the events right beside them, as opposed to watching them removed from us.

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pzman84
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#27 Post by pzman84 » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:56 pm

I'm suprised no one brought this up but I think Nino Rota's death caused a loss in quality in Fellini's films. Rota added a rhythm to all of Fellini's films. Like Herrmann was to Hitchcock, Rota set the tone of all of Fellini's films. Rota was with Fellini from the very beginning. I do think Fellini's post-Rota films do suffer from this loss in rhythm. However, their separation was not Fellini's fault so the loss in quality cannot be blamed on him.

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Schkura
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#28 Post by Schkura » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:55 am

So... If the director's work deteriorated in his later years, we can't blame Fellini because he didn't kill Nino Rota?

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Dylan
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#29 Post by Dylan » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:56 am

If you read my first post on this thread, I did write
However, after "Orchestra Rehearsal," (which is, coincidently, when Fellini's composer Nino Rota died) everything I've seen (which is everything but "Voice of the Moon") is a mixed bag, or worse.
though I wasn't as broad about it because music was one of the better things (if not the best thing) about his 80s work. But I'm speaking strictly of the music itself, not of how it goes with the films, so I will very much support your hypothesis because his use of music in the 80s was uncharacteristic of him, especially compared to such perfect work with Nino Rota.

Directly after Rota died Fellini hired Luis Bacalov to score "City of Women" (for no reason other than that one day while recording "Casanova" Nino Rota said to Fellini that Bacalov was good). Bacalov wrote a wonderful score which was released on CD, but very strangely more than half of what he wrote isn't in the film. More suspicious is that there are countless scenes without underscore in the 140 minute film where music feels desperately needed (and this had never been a problem with Fellini movies before), so I'm not sure what the hell happened (as I said in my above post, "City of Women" feels like a rough cut to me, and the near absence of music in most of it adds to that).

Rota certainly had as much to do with Fellini as Herrmann did for Hitchcock, and when you watch "Torn Curtain" or "City of Women" you most definitely feel the loss of the composers (though at least "City of Women" has good music in it, there's just not very much of it). "And the Ship Sails On" only used adapted classical, which is all great music, but it also might've helped make that film kind of sluggish, lacking the energy of those otherworldly Rota-esque melodies ("Ship" is certainly the best of his 80s films, but I just find it to be an okay film...like "City of Women" it's just too long).

But starting with "Ginger and Fred" Fellini found the very talented Nicola Piovani, who has a very distinct style but is also often inspired from Rota, and Piovani wrote some nice music for those last three Fellini movies...but the problem is the way the films (or the two I've seen) treat the music, which is exclusively as background music, which is something else that strikes me as strange and uncharacteristic of Fellini. I mean, where's the choreography (to be fair, "Ginger and Fred" did have Piovani adapting Irving Berlin's music for the final dance scene...and he really Rota-izes "Let's Face the Music and Dance," in particular)? For me, Piovani's delightful music is still the only truly Felliniesque thing about those films, but in the 80s music just wasn't the true heart and voice of these worlds, and for what reason I'm not sure, but the lack of a musical heart in the later films certainly contributed to their overall failures (even if the music itself was good).

As far as "Ginger and Fred" looking 'ugly,' it's pedestrian cinematography was just one of the things that added to it being (for me) severely lower-tier. Many of my favorite movies have little to no sense of style (particularly a lot of early Hollywood films) and I don't mind at all. But someone like Fellini, of course, has a very apparent style, even the non-cinematically virtuoso ones are very proficiently shot films (I Vitelloni or La Strada, for instance), and I'm always shocked when I glance at "Intervista" or "Ginger and Fred," which look like they could've been made by anyone (and I'm speaking in terms of everything, not just style).

As I've said, Fellini is without a doubt my favorite director, I love him, but in my opinion he did lose his magic in the 80s (though once again, I haven't seen "Voice of the Moon"...as soon as somebody releases an English subtitled DVD I'll buy it). But he had a wonderful, wonderful run from "Variety Lights" till "Orchestra Rehearsal," and that's almost 30 years of consistency. He truly was the greatest, even if his later stuff isn't so hot.

Dylan

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antnield
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#30 Post by antnield » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:11 am


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jorencain
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#31 Post by jorencain » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:40 am

:D Great news. I'll have to pick up "Ginger and Fred"; thanks for the heads-up.

rossbrew
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#32 Post by rossbrew » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:37 pm

I strongly object to the heading of this thread ("Late Fellini")- I happen to know - after exhaustively reading every available bio of this cinematic legend - that Maestro Fellini was always extremely punctual and would never under any circumstances show up to an appointment- much less a film set!- late...sorry, but I just had to vent...

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Dylan
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#33 Post by Dylan » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:08 pm

I wonder if the "La Felliniana" featurettes are footage from that Seattle festival from a few years back? Though last time I heard, a DVD documentary covering that festival was to be independently released early this year.

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Lino
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Satyricon

#34 Post by Lino » Sat May 06, 2006 7:39 am

David, have you seen the vintage Making of, Ciao Federico? It's indispensable for any lover of Satyricon!

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jorencain
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#35 Post by jorencain » Sun May 07, 2006 12:04 pm

Just watched "Casanova" for the first time, and I'm not sure that I have too much to say about it. As Annie Mall previously said, this is his most unreal and artificial film; and the sets, costumes, etc. are amazing. I couldn't help but think of "Tales Of Hoffmann" throughout (particularly, and obviously, near the end, with the mechanical woman).

I think that I enjoyed it more than "Satyricon", which it seems to be the closest to in Fellini's ouvre. At the same time, it feels overly long, and at least one of the episodes could have been cut. I kept hoping that we would learn something new about his character in each episode, but we don't necessarily. I felt that the beginning and the last half hour are very strong, but it just meanders too much in the middle...I don't think we needed to really watch the world's tallest woman armwrestle people and get bathed, for example.

There are certainly several wonderfully effective moments throughout the film that only Fellini could pull off. Plus, I loved the music. I just wish there was a little more content.

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tavernier
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#36 Post by tavernier » Sun May 07, 2006 12:15 pm

jorencain wrote:I just wish there was a little more content.
Then it wouldn't have been Fellini's Casanova. For more content (and insight), get hold of Casanova's diaries.

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Antoine Doinel
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#37 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sun May 07, 2006 3:44 pm

Has anyone here seen Ginger And Fred (1986)? It's a TV movie that Fellini did and it's screening here next month. It does have Giulietta Masina, whom I adore so I'll probably be going to see it just for her. But her aside, is it worth seeking out?

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jorencain
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#38 Post by jorencain » Sun May 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Yeah, check out the first page of this thread. You'll get both sides of the argument, so I won't rehash it (although I will say that I really enjoyed it).

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Antoine Doinel
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#39 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sun May 07, 2006 4:20 pm

Oops! That'll learn me to read threads first! Thanks!

Edit: after reading the first page, I will go and check it out bearing in mind the cinematography will a lot more static than usual. As to the pacing, that's a problem I find that plagues even some of his best work. Amarcord, though visually great, I find to be a bit of a drag and same with Roma. La Strada, to me, is one of the few perfectly paced Fellini films, and naturally, is my favorite.

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Lino
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#40 Post by Lino » Mon May 08, 2006 9:39 am

Granted, it's no masterpiece but it's well worth your time especially since you are such a big fan. Highlights include Fellini proudly promenading his 3 main actors (Martin Potter, Hiram Keller and Max Born); Fellini and his wife entertaining guests during a soiree only possible in late 60's art circles; Fellini directing Capucine in the wedding at sea scene (and barely losing his patience); Fellini directing the long banquet scene (and actually losing his patience). I'm sure there are more but these are the ones that stand out.

Since you're going to France next month, try and get hold of this item here if you find it available. Apparently, it's from restored elements and the extras are pretty nifty too. Watch the trailer here.

BTW, wasn't this included in the Criterion Laserdisc of Satyricon?

EDIT: yes, it was, Annie.

Who provided the commentary?

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dekadetia
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#41 Post by dekadetia » Mon May 08, 2006 12:50 pm

Well, here's a question to throw out there...does anyone know how the Criterion LD's subtitles compare to those on the R1 dvd from MGM? I have an old MGM/UA vhs tape, and the subtitles on this and on the current DVD seem to leave a lot of the dialogue untranslated (I would guess somewhere between 15 and 20 percent). I haven't seen the film recently enough to pinpoint specific lines, and I honestly kind of doubt that more extensive subtitling whould actually lend any greater coherence to the film, but I'd still like to see a more thorough translation.

rwaits
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#42 Post by rwaits » Mon May 08, 2006 2:38 pm

I know what you mean. Its been a while since I've watched this film, and I watched it on dvd, but I remember thinking very large chunks of dialogue had no translation. But as you said, I doubt an exact, word for word translation would be necessary.

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Lino
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#43 Post by Lino » Tue May 09, 2006 4:18 am

rwaits wrote:I know what you mean. Its been a while since I've watched this film, and I watched it on dvd, but I remember thinking very large chunks of dialogue had no translation. But as you said, I doubt an exact, word for word translation would be necessary.
Not to mention that sometimes what they say in the english or italian dubbed versions differs immensely. I personally prefer the english one because at least that's what the main actors were speaking when filming.

That said, I would kill for a complete restoration of this wondrous movie. Although the picture looks very good on Gary's caps.

he doesn't show some very nasty tears and excessive grain that seem to plague some scenes in every version I've so far seen (laserdisc, DVD and TV). They somehow manage to kind of ruin the viewing experience for me (damn Criterion and Warner for spoiling me to this limit!). Still, this is one I will always go back to - it may be Fellini's visually strongest movie, on a par with arguably only his Casanova.
davidhare wrote:I will always remember, after the prem screening of this in Sydney the reaction of an old University friend, raging het masher and a well-known anarchist local porno cartoonist/activist. Mouth dribbling he shrieked across the foyer. "That's IT. I'm going to start fucking BOYS!"
This is why your contribution to this forum is priceless! Keep them coming!

Intervista
is available on DVD in many countries now. And this is one Fellini that I still haven't seen.

About the english dub: the words spoken actually mimmick the main actors mouth's movements so they were surely not only speaking giberish throughout the film. And it's their own voices too that you hear on the dub. That's why I prefer it to the italian dub. Purists may disagree but that's ok.

Solaris
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#44 Post by Solaris » Tue May 09, 2006 7:18 am

David, Intervista is coming to R4 in July. Refer to the R4 thread.

David Ehrenstein
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#45 Post by David Ehrenstein » Thu May 18, 2006 11:07 am

Ciao Federico was on the Criterion laserdisc edition of Fellini Satyricon. It's quite fascinating -- especially to see Fellini directing Capucine.

planetjake

#46 Post by planetjake » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:17 pm

Like Dylan, Fellini is my absolute favorite filmmaker. In my eyes he is unapproachable... There is not a single film in his canon that I don't deem inessential (except City of Women... which is just unfortunate). This includes Ginger and Fred, Intervista (which I consider a masterpiece and is the subject of my intended thesis... It's a Jungian analysis actually, so it should be pretty interesting *gulp* I hope.) and (ESPECIALLY) Fellini Satyricon, Il Casanova di Federico Fellini, Roma and I Clowns...

I have a relatively large collection of DVDs and am just now getting around to buying a region free player. So my question is really directed to anyone who has the Region 2 Casanova, Ginger and Fred, And the Ship Sails On, Il Bidone, Amarcord, Prova d'orchestra etc, etc. In short: Worth the investment?

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Dylan
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#47 Post by Dylan » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:22 pm

Are you the same 'planetjake' from the old board? If so, I remember you. And yes, I too love Fellini.

I agree with you on "City of Women," which as I've said has always felt like an unfinished film.

The R2 DVD of "Il Bidone" is absolutley indispensible. I just watched it last weekend, the transfer and subtitles are amply improved, and the film (which has always been a masterpiece) only got better with the added footage.

The R2s of "Ginger and Fred" and "And the Ship Sails On" are reportedly sublime, and are loaded with hours of extras (a four hour documentary on Fellini's films in spread between the two discs, among other extras).

I would hold off on "Casanova" as there isn't an acceptable version out there yet: washed out colors, no shadows, vertically stretched. The best version of "Casanova" is playing on the Sundance channel, which isn't vertically stretched, and restores Giuseppe Rotunno's stunning lights and colors...when it was on a few weeks ago I caught it from the middle to the end and was shocked at the great quality of the image as I had never seen an acceptable version before. Catch it next time it's on. Sadly, Universal owns the rights and I don't see them releasing in the US anytime soon, but hopefully the remaster will surface somewhere else.

"I Clowns" has no DVD with English subtitles yet, and I haven't heard about the R2 of "Prova d'orchestra." The UK "Amarcord" disc has some nice sounding extras (like an interview with composer Alexandre Desplat, whose work is liked by quite a few on this forum), but the transfer apparently isn't as good as the Criterion (which should be getting a remastering in the future).

I'd be interested in your "Intervista" comments, even though I'm not a fan of the film I'm still open to other's readings, and it sounds like you're onto something interesting bringing Jung into it.

atcolomb
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#48 Post by atcolomb » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:34 pm

I just found out that Criterion will re-release AMARCORD on dvd towards the end of this year. Maybe they found a better print of the movie and it was one of their first releases. I hope they will add lots of extras to this great film!... :D

planetjake

#49 Post by planetjake » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:19 am

Dylan: Yep, I'm the same planetjake... Just ordered Casanova (Sorry... I can't help it. It's one of my top three Fellini's), Ginger And Fred and ...And The Ship Sails On from Amazon UK. Will hold off on Amarcord for now...

atcolomb: do you have a source? I'm super excited. Will this be a two disc I wonder... I know Infinity Arthouse just announced a Prova d'orchestra two-disc that I'm super excited about... It's a great time to be a Fellini fan...

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jorencain
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#50 Post by jorencain » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:17 am

planetjake wrote:atcolomb: do you have a source? I'm super excited. Will this be a two disc I wonder... I know Infinity Arthouse just announced a Prova d'orchestra two-disc that I'm super excited about... It's a great time to be a Fellini fan...
There have been several sources about Amarcord, but nothing conclusive from Criterion themselves. HOWEVER, there was that big hint "I Remember" in their haiku newsletter a month or so ago. Check out the newsletter thread.

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