1990s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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Peacock
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:47 pm
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#601 Post by Peacock » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:16 am

zedz wrote: so don't miss out and forever regret the absence of Troll 2!
Troll 2's the only film on my list!!
" He was one of us... and you killed him! Now it's your turn! "

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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#602 Post by Michael » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:37 am

How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.

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GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:57 am

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#603 Post by GringoTex » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:20 am

Michael wrote:How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.
Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.

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ptatler
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#604 Post by ptatler » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:23 am

GringoTex wrote:
Michael wrote:How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.
Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.
If I'd had room, my Verhoeven vote would've gone to Starship Troopers. Winking/wanking value aside, Showgirls is still pretty awful.

mikeohhh
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#605 Post by mikeohhh » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:11 am

GringoTex wrote:
Michael wrote:How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.
Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.
There is still time, fellas!!!!

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Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#606 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:19 am

GringoTex wrote:
Michael wrote:How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.
Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.
that was one of my 'bubbling unders' (no pun intended!) 8-)

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Dr Amicus
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#607 Post by Dr Amicus » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:42 am

Yojimbo wrote:
GringoTex wrote:
Michael wrote:How did I forget Showgirls?! :shock: That has to be in my top 5, no question about it.
Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.
that was one of my 'bubbling unders' (no pun intended!)
Same here - along with Starship Troopers. It's hard to know quite how to take Showgirls (hmmm.... that could be better phrased...), but I suspect it shouldn't be taken as seriously as many of its harsher critics have done. At least, I hope not.

Just submitted my list - bit conventional I'm afraid. Top 10 as follows:
1 The Silence of the Lambs
2 Unforgiven
3 Crash
4 Three Colours Red
5 Land and Freedom
6 Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
7 City of Hope
8 All About My Mother
9 The Wrong Trousers
10 Ride With the Devil

There seems to have more I wanted to squeeze on this time than for some previous lists - I suspect because I've seen a lot more 90s films than some earlier decades and because (in most cases) seen them recently enough to be secure(ish) in my judgements. But still... no room for And Life Goes On, Love is the Devil, Michael Collins, Strain Andromeda The, Babe (1 or 2). And some I haven't seen (no Yang at all, only Flowers of Shanghai for Hou, My Name is Joe) that I suspect may have been serious contenders.

Oh well - bring on the noughties!

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#608 Post by Lemmy Caution » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:20 pm

Well my Top 10 was much more conventional than yours.
But I was very pleased to see that the one we had in common was the Wallace & Gromit classic (#4 on my listification).
My second 10 is more interesting:
  • 11. Ju Dou
    12. Faust (Svankmajer, 1994)
    13. Dead Man
    14. Brother's Keeper
    15. La Haine
    16. Okraina (aka Outskirts, 1998)
    17. The Virgin Suicides
    18. Europa
    19. Ratcatcher
    20. Baseball – Ken Burns

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Erikht
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:31 am

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#609 Post by Erikht » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:40 pm

I am sure Samurai Vampire Bikers From Hell deserves a place somewhere on this list.

roujin
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:16 am

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#610 Post by roujin » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:52 pm

I've seen a lot of lists with Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me and count me confused. I just don't get that film. Parts of it are extremely harrowing and painful but it's such a slug to get thru it for me. Partly because Sheryl Lee's performance consists of basically bugging out her eyes when she's in a frenzy. It's my least favorite Lynch.

Thanks to zedz for sending me back my list. My bottom 10 is really perplexing to me, I'm not sure how I came up with it or what the hell was I thinking.

41. Nenette et Boni
42. She and Her Cat
43. South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut
44. The Sweet Hereafter
45. The Age of Innocence
46. Breaking the Waves
47. Wild at Heart
48. Gummo
49. Nowhere
50. A Touch of Fever

I'm hoping Gummo makes a surprise appearance in the top 100 :lol:

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#611 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:12 pm

I looked at my 41-50 picks -- and was pleased to discover that I really did like everything in these spots. I will follow zedz's hint, however, and not post these at this time. ;~}

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Shrew
The Untamed One
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#612 Post by Shrew » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:21 pm

Ahhh, I've been trying to fit in a glut of films and I still have too many films left to see. Satantango, Maborosi, Land and Freedom, Thin Red Line are all sitting in my kevyip, Joe Vs the Volcano just came from Netflix, and I just got a call from the library that the hereto missing To Sleep with Anger has shown up. Can I have an extra day or two?

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#613 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:50 pm

Darn, you are all reminding me of so many films I missed off my list!
Dr Amicus wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:
GringoTex wrote: Crap I forgot Showgirls, too.
that was one of my 'bubbling unders' (no pun intended!)
Same here - along with Starship Troopers. It's hard to know quite how to take Showgirls (hmmm.... that could be better phrased...), but I suspect it shouldn't be taken as seriously as many of its harsher critics have done. At least, I hope not.
I ended up dropping Showgirls for Starship Troopers but similarly found it strangely compelling/hilarious! Perhaps it is difficult to get a handle on because the tacky, tawdry, overblown world is treated seriously as something that the characters aspire to in order to provide fame and seems to be all they dream of that gives their lives meaning (though it is perhaps easier to understand in the age of reality TV). Yet at the same time the film seems to constantly be showing the lie to their shallow dreams even while none of the characters actually seem to notice the sham world they are in (sort of like the Scarface remake, now I come to think of it. And like that film once you claw your way to the top job where is there left to go but down?)

Then there are the uncomfortable juxtapositions from the catty bitchfests between semi-naked women and the angry spasmotic jerk-hump movements that Nomi and Crystal do in their performances that seem to be meant to make them feisty and sexual creatures but instead cause them to seem barely in control of their own bodies and emotions, to the rather brutal and unexpected assault the one identifiably human (and up to that point the only unsullied and non-sexually presented) character suffers that serves as the catalyst for the last third of the film.

But then there's the backstage monkey rampage and that infamous swimming pool sex scene... :-k

Image
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Camera Obscura
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#614 Post by Camera Obscura » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:04 pm

He didn't even make my 'bubbling under', but Verhoeven is my favourite idiot too.

I made up for the probable omission of Troll 2 in the final list by putting Story of Ricky (1991) on my list. Please tell me, someone has voted for this one too.

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John Cope
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#615 Post by John Cope » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:24 pm

FWIW, if I had listed a Verhoeven it would have without any doubt been Basic Instinct. That one, for me, is Verhoeven's most striking and immersive depiction of the rancidness of character writ large. A truly staggering experience as the ostensible hero is so utterly unrepentant and foul. Extraordinary and epoch making.
roujin wrote:I've seen a lot of lists with Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me and count me confused. I just don't get that film. Parts of it are extremely harrowing and painful but it's such a slug to get thru it for me. Partly because Sheryl Lee's performance consists of basically bugging out her eyes when she's in a frenzy. It's my least favorite Lynch.
I adore Fire Walk With Me and consider it possibly Lynch's finest feature but I still passed it over in favor of the Twin Peaks pilot. They are almost opposite experiences and mood ultimately determines which I prefer. FWWM is Lynch's purest vision of personal holocaust rendered as mythic cataclysm. It also salvages the mythology of the series which had begun to curdle and turn into fan boy dross (though Lynch's final TV episode also goes a ways toward remedying that). Having said all that, I also dearly love the pilot (and that includes the "closed" European ending) for, as I say, virtually opposite reasons. Its immersion is less experiential and more atmospheric; a perfectly realized and precise ambiance. Beyond that, whenever I rewatch the series, and I have done so many times, I always linger over that first two hours as it establishes a set of options for the series to pursue from which the series necessarily had to select and diverge. Of course I love the series but that pilot is Lynch in absolute tonal control; as has been said before, perhaps because of TV's restrictions he had to be more attentive to nuance than ever and it helped him, I think. Certainly the muted, sorrowful tone of the pilot was never to be again; it gradually eased off and slipped into a more extravagant gear. Even Ron Garcia's gorgeous highly burnished cinematography in the pilot is of a different caliber than his return work in FWWM; not better, just different, appropriate for the tone of this piece. I often wonder what the series would have been like had it somehow managed to maintain that refined, stately and elegiac quality throughout. Probably even less popular than it ultimately became.

One other detail I have to add about that pilot. A very significant part of its accomplishment for me is in its privileging of mourning as appropriate action; a legitimate response to loss and a legitimate foundational ethic. It establishes the perspective as a more objective one in contrast to the subjectivity of FWWM or even the increased particularity of the series. This is obvious I suppose but it's certainly the one angle all the imitators failed to replicate. Because of course it has to do with presumptions of worth and value extending beyond the purely personal. Lynch uses the understood social or communal value of Laura as a jumping off point, taking the response of mourning seriously then as something that can extend beyond and ultimately escape pragmatic value making.

On another note, I am interested in what we are seeing so far in respect to how these lists are coming out as I wonder if there will be a shift in terms of favorites from individual directors from what may have been listed at the start of the century. Certainly it seems to be moving toward that. I am especially interested in the fact that Egoyan's Exotica appears to be moving ahead of The Sweet Hereafter, which I doubt would have occurred eight or nine years ago. Personally I agree with that move wholeheartedly since, as much as I respect it, Sweet Hereafter has not aged well for me and I never responded to it with the kind of awe which Exotica inspired and continues to inspire--for me it's ultimately the richer text. I also note, with due respect to you roujin, that Breaking the Waves doesn't seem to be charting much, or perhaps I'm missing the groundswell of support hidden in the lists somewhere. Personally I don't care much for it and never did but I distinctly remember the early 2000 Cinema Scope poll which placed it far, far ahead of everything else much to the shock and apparent chagrin of editor Mark Peranson.

On my own list, I also passed on Nowhere for The Doom Generation, though a case could be made that Nowhere essays even richer terrain (certainly the ending of that one is just as soul crushing and abjectly devastating).

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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#616 Post by Michael » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:30 pm

Great defense of Twin Peaks, John Cope. I often parade around saying Mulholland Dr or Inland Empire is Lynch's magnus opus but that damn thing called Twin Peaks always picking at me from the behind. I have to say that of all Lynch films, Twin Peaks is at Lynch's most emotionally ravishing AND wrenching. I guess lost high school girls in the woods make more sorrow than lost actresses in the movie industry. Bob is the scariest Lynch character period.

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Yojimbo
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#617 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:51 pm

Michael wrote:Great defense of Twin Peaks, John Cope. I often parade around saying Mulholland Dr or Inland Empire is Lynch's magnus opus but that damn thing called Twin Peaks always picking at me from the behind. I have to say that of all Lynch films, Twin Peaks is at Lynch's most emotionally ravishing AND wrenching. I guess lost high school girls in the woods make more sorrow than lost actresses in the movie industry. Bob is the scariest Lynch character period.
I still haven't gotten around to watching it, but then again I was only recently able to get the DVD, for a decent price.

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cysiam
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#618 Post by cysiam » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:57 pm

damn it all, so many films I forgot about
c'est la vie

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#619 Post by zedz » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:00 pm

John Cope wrote:I am especially interested in the fact that Egoyan's Exotica appears to be moving ahead of The Sweet Hereafter, which I doubt would have occurred eight or nine years ago.
All will be revealed soon enough (you've all got about another 18 hours to get your lists in, with the time differences), but I suspect that this will be a fascinating entrail-reading exercise in terms of canon formation / maintenance.

Me, I'm surprised that what I consider Egoyan's best film by a long shot, Calendar, has attracted only one vote so far. Take a bow, Man With Taste!

This looks like it will be the hugest vote yet, with 50 lists or more received and over 800 films nominated, so I could be a while getting back with the results!

Aki
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#620 Post by Aki » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:58 pm

My bottom five:

46. The Garden of Eden (Novaro)
47. Shall We Dance (Suo)
48. Double Happiness (Shum)
49. Human Resources (Cantet)
50. Smoke Signals (Eyre)

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Fiery Angel
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#621 Post by Fiery Angel » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:27 pm

I figured my Top 10 would be different, but after seeing the lists posted so far, I didn't realize how different. Anyway, here goes:

1. Hamsun (Jan Troell, 1996)
2. Captaine Conan (Bertrand Tavernier, 1996)
3. Eyes Wide Shut (Stanley Kubrick, 1999)
4. The Oak (Lucian Pintilie, 1992)
5. Secret of the Old Woods (Ermanno Olmi, 1993)
6. Stolen Children (Gianni Amelio, 1992)
7. Le Garcu (Maurice Pialat, 1995)
8. Dr. Akagi (Shohei Imamura, 1998)
9. Husbands & Wives (Woody Allen, 1992)
10. My Sex Life...or How I Got into an Argument (Arnaud Desplechin, 1996)

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Gropius
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#622 Post by Gropius » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:32 pm

zedz wrote:This looks like it will be the hugest vote yet, with 50 lists or more received...
That's getting on for a serious statistical sample of what I am guessing are entirely male DVD geeks.

Mise En Scene
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#623 Post by Mise En Scene » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

What action films, if any, were you folks considering? (I'm not inquiring into which ones made your lists so as to keep the suspense on what, if any, makes the final compiled list.) So which ones may or may not have made your lists?

Titles I was seriously considering - Ronin, Running Out of Time, Fist of Legend, Drunken Master 2, Once Upon a Time in China, Once Upon a Time in China 2, Dragon Inn, Lifeline.

Any great ones I overlooked, forgot about, or never heard of?
Last edited by Mise En Scene on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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knives
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Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#624 Post by knives » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:26 pm

Looks at LQ. Almost entirely male.

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SoyCuba
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Location: Finland

Re: 1990s List Discussion and Suggestions

#625 Post by SoyCuba » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:03 am

Well, I've submitted my list but unfortunately didn't get to see either of tojoed's swapsies. So tojoed, if you have a 2000s film you'd like me to watch for the next project and have watched Raise the Red Lantern for this project, I would be happy to do that.

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