1930s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Haha, either I'm much more talkative than you guys (yes) or you were all waaay ahead of me in terms of movies watched (also yes)- I've still got six slots open at the bottom of my list. There are a bunch of movies I liked well enough that I could slot in there, but nothing that really seems to scream for it.
On the other hand, I've still got maybe two dozen movies to watch in the next week, and several 'maybes' that could easily hit the top half of my list upon rewatching (as Freaks did.) I'm really glad for the extra time before the deadline, though I'm really looking forward to moving on.
On the other hand, I've still got maybe two dozen movies to watch in the next week, and several 'maybes' that could easily hit the top half of my list upon rewatching (as Freaks did.) I'm really glad for the extra time before the deadline, though I'm really looking forward to moving on.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Die, not dice. I should probably be the last one here issuing that correction.swo17 wrote:That's it, I'm rolling my 51-sided dice.
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Who says he's only rolling one?
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I thought the pedantic response was supposed to be that they don't make 51-sided dice.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
They do though.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I am clearly out of my element in this discussion. Back to watching films for me.
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
People on Sunday is a lot of fun. It feels like too much of a toss-off to make it particularly high on my list- beautiful and interesting though it is, it's like watching someone's particularly well made home movies- but it fits nicely into the little curiosities section I seem to have developed on the bottom.
Obviously, the big fascination here is just getting a feeling of what it was like to be a normal person in Berlin in the 30s, with only the slightest occasional hint of the wars past and coming or the depression. It reminds me a little of Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz in that regard- whatever else is going on, both capture something about the German character that feels both unique and universal at the same time, and both explore a city and a time that's simultaneously totally familiar and unreachably foreign.
In People, there are times when it's so dedicated to being a document simply of people and what they're like that it feels like a precursor to an Andy Warhol film- particularly at the point about forty five minutes in, where we're simply watching people smile at the camera. The way it cuts together the loose fiction of the bathing party with city symphony scenes works extraordinarily well, too, feeling less like an interruption to the narrative and more like a contextualization for how the specific people we're seeing fit into the city as a whole.
There's something consciously minor about the movie- it's not striving to be much more than charming, I think- but it definitely succeeds in its goals. I kind of hated the moon-faced guy on sight, particularly once he was wandering around in his diaper-like bathing suit, making an ass of himself, and I don't know that I actually liked any of the people onscreen long enough to become characters, except insofar as I liked their recognizable humanity. Nonetheless, there's a feeling almost of serenity to some of the scenes, regardless of what the people actually in them are like, and regardless of the psychodrama going on between them- it's a beautiful day, and we're out on a boat, or running through the woods, or lounging on the beach, and the movie (and at least one of the scores) gets across the feeling of not giving a damn that goes with that wonderfully well.
(It also makes me wish that Lulu Brooks hairstyle would come back in fashion, but that's sort of neither here nor there.)
Obviously, the big fascination here is just getting a feeling of what it was like to be a normal person in Berlin in the 30s, with only the slightest occasional hint of the wars past and coming or the depression. It reminds me a little of Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz in that regard- whatever else is going on, both capture something about the German character that feels both unique and universal at the same time, and both explore a city and a time that's simultaneously totally familiar and unreachably foreign.
In People, there are times when it's so dedicated to being a document simply of people and what they're like that it feels like a precursor to an Andy Warhol film- particularly at the point about forty five minutes in, where we're simply watching people smile at the camera. The way it cuts together the loose fiction of the bathing party with city symphony scenes works extraordinarily well, too, feeling less like an interruption to the narrative and more like a contextualization for how the specific people we're seeing fit into the city as a whole.
There's something consciously minor about the movie- it's not striving to be much more than charming, I think- but it definitely succeeds in its goals. I kind of hated the moon-faced guy on sight, particularly once he was wandering around in his diaper-like bathing suit, making an ass of himself, and I don't know that I actually liked any of the people onscreen long enough to become characters, except insofar as I liked their recognizable humanity. Nonetheless, there's a feeling almost of serenity to some of the scenes, regardless of what the people actually in them are like, and regardless of the psychodrama going on between them- it's a beautiful day, and we're out on a boat, or running through the woods, or lounging on the beach, and the movie (and at least one of the scores) gets across the feeling of not giving a damn that goes with that wonderfully well.
(It also makes me wish that Lulu Brooks hairstyle would come back in fashion, but that's sort of neither here nor there.)
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
For anyone interested, The Power and the Glory is tentatively scheduled to air Sunday, September 18 on Turner Classic Movies. Be aware that TCM could very well change their schedule between now and then.
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
The Mummy has enough strong points to make it clear that Freund was in many ways as gifted a director as a cinematographer- the mini silent movie that explains Imhotep's backstory, Karloff's makeup, and particularly his performance, which evokes empathy and horror at the same time, conveying a deep sadness that has rotted into cruelty.
Unfortunately, it's plagued by a lot of the same problems as Dracula: the interesting performances are bogged down by grey men talking in a room, the plotting felt creaky (in fact, this seemed like it was pretty much the same plot as Dracula, with a different exotic location) and the romantic lead is an infuriating idiot. I liked most of the material between Karloff and Helen (and I particularly appreciated that the final plot resolution was something motivated by her, and not by her idiot cavalry) but whenever Frank was onscreen the movie seemed to wither back to the same kind of half-adapted theatrical material that a lot of the first generation sound horror movies were. The cuts to Karloff's face and a lot of the camera moves were effective- you can tell that Freund was already a genius at creating atmosphere- but the ratio of good to bad just wasn't strong enough to make this one a list contender.
edit: Haha, I didn't realize the bland lead here was actually the same actor as the bland lead from Dracula (and The Black Cat.) Apparently, I just hate David Manners.
Unfortunately, it's plagued by a lot of the same problems as Dracula: the interesting performances are bogged down by grey men talking in a room, the plotting felt creaky (in fact, this seemed like it was pretty much the same plot as Dracula, with a different exotic location) and the romantic lead is an infuriating idiot. I liked most of the material between Karloff and Helen (and I particularly appreciated that the final plot resolution was something motivated by her, and not by her idiot cavalry) but whenever Frank was onscreen the movie seemed to wither back to the same kind of half-adapted theatrical material that a lot of the first generation sound horror movies were. The cuts to Karloff's face and a lot of the camera moves were effective- you can tell that Freund was already a genius at creating atmosphere- but the ratio of good to bad just wasn't strong enough to make this one a list contender.
edit: Haha, I didn't realize the bland lead here was actually the same actor as the bland lead from Dracula (and The Black Cat.) Apparently, I just hate David Manners.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Nobody loves Manners, but you have to live with Manners all the same. I apologize for the pun. If it's any consolation he's actually good in Journey's End.
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
What's funny is that in Dracula, The Mummy, and The Black Cat, Manners is basically useless as the hero. He never actually saves the girl, he just happens to get there in time to romantically walk with her back to safety. It's been several years since I watched The Mummy, but doesn't the girl basically escape on her own while Manners has fainted somewhere?
I do actually find him watchable and even sympathetic as a blind man on the verge of suicide in Capra's The Miracle Woman (although he does have a creepy bit where he uses a ventriloquist's dummy to express his feelings to Barbara Stanwyck). He's no Cary Grant, but he comes off pretty decently here.
I do actually find him watchable and even sympathetic as a blind man on the verge of suicide in Capra's The Miracle Woman (although he does have a creepy bit where he uses a ventriloquist's dummy to express his feelings to Barbara Stanwyck). He's no Cary Grant, but he comes off pretty decently here.
- myrnaloyisdope
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:41 pm
- Contact:
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Manners is pretty solid in The Last Flight, as one of the "lost generation" boozing his way through 1920's Paris, but the writing is so good that I think anyone could have played the part.
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Manners nearly gets himself killed doing exactly what he'd been cautioned not to do, and the girl saves herself with an appeal to Isis. He's apparently there as moral support.Feego wrote:What's funny is that in Dracula, The Mummy, and The Black Cat, Manners is basically useless as the hero. He never actually saves the girl, he just happens to get there in time to romantically walk with her back to safety. It's been several years since I watched The Mummy, but doesn't the girl basically escape on her own while Manners has fainted somewhere?
I just watched Capra's You Can't Take it With You, which is sort of an infuriatingly mixed bag.
I loved most of the movie- Barrymore's absolutely delightful, Jean Arthur and Jimmy Stewart feel like a natural pair, and the scenes with the whole family work up a sense of joy almost to equal Holiday. There are parts that have a real emotional force to them, too- notably Edward Arnold's weariness and sense of loss near the end, and Barrymore describing his relationship with his deceased wife. Unfortunately, the strength of those parts highlight the emotional dishonesty of the whole third act turn.
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Arthur's awe for the social position of the Kirby's, her desire to please them, and her sudden turning on Stewart's character when she recognizes what a fraud his mother is never make much sense. She's self confident and sees nothing admirable in wealth or prestige, yet somehow she feels a need to hide her beloved family and impress the swells- we're never given any indication of why she would do this. Her attitude towards Stewart seems even more unfair, as he's made it fairly clear that he has no interest in standing with his family against hers.
Barrymore selling the house, all at once, seems purely designed to set up the end of the plot, too. Unless we're meant to read it that he knew all along how things would turn out (which seems implausible) the haste with which he unloads the house seems totally unmotivated.
Barrymore selling the house, all at once, seems purely designed to set up the end of the plot, too. Unless we're meant to read it that he knew all along how things would turn out (which seems implausible) the haste with which he unloads the house seems totally unmotivated.
I keep waiting to come across the Capra that's all the stuff I love- which is a lot of it- and doesn't let me down in the third act.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
American Madness?
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I'll watch that one next, I'd forgotten that it was a beloved one.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I'll second that though it's not amongst my favorites because your problems don't bother me none. Likewise Bitter Tea doesn't have any of the third act compromises that you seem to dislike.
-
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:40 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Broadway Bill is pretty underrated, I think. It's every bit a Frank Capra film, but it feels like it's on a smaller scale compared to his more famous late-30s movies. The portrayal of the Depression is extremely vivid, and while the film has all of Capra's typical trademarks, there's an undercurrent of desperation and melancholy running throughout that keeps it from feeling quite as hokey as some of his work. It's not anywhere near his best film, but it's a good one that rarely gets discussed.
- Murdoch
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Also, The Miracle Woman is pretty fantastic as well.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
With nine lists in, we finally have 100 films we all agree upon (well, that at least two people agree upon each) and things are shaping up quite nicely as a real shake-up of the status quo. I count 40 films presently in the top 100 that didn't show up in the top 100 done in 2006 (one of these is currently ranked #7). No doubt this has a lot to do with the vast increase in availability in the past five years (as well as the fact that not all the lists are in, so some of the more eccentric picks haven't been booted off yet). With so many new arrivals, it's also interesting to see which films from the prior "canon" are holding strong, and which others have fallen precipitously. (Two films from the prior top 10 are sitting right now in the bottom 25 of the top 100.) Anyway, keep your lists coming!
With about five days remaining until the deadline, I'd also just like to put in one last plug for the spotlight section in the first post. There are a lot of great films listed there (and I'm not just talking about my own picks) and, for many of the more rare titles unavailable by any other means, several people have gone to some effort to host copies for download. I'll stress that there's absolutely no pressure for you to include these particular films on your lists, but I really do hope you are all taking advantage of this great resource while it lasts, and watching as many of these films as your time, energy, and resources permit.
With about five days remaining until the deadline, I'd also just like to put in one last plug for the spotlight section in the first post. There are a lot of great films listed there (and I'm not just talking about my own picks) and, for many of the more rare titles unavailable by any other means, several people have gone to some effort to host copies for download. I'll stress that there's absolutely no pressure for you to include these particular films on your lists, but I really do hope you are all taking advantage of this great resource while it lasts, and watching as many of these films as your time, energy, and resources permit.
- Gropius
- Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:47 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Finally watched Riefenstahl's Olympia. This won't be making my list, mainly because, while the film is full of excellent photography (particularly in the second part), I personally despise the Olympics as a concept and an institution. The aesthetic value of the individual athletic displays is marred by the overwhelming preoccupation with petty nationalist victories. (The same objection applies to Triumph of the Will, which is undermined by the bathetic speeches, impossible to take seriously in historical retrospect.)
On the (Austro-)German theme, though, I thoroughly enjoyed two of Tommaso's other recommendations: Maskerade, which is indeed impeccably stylish (much preferred it to Liebelei, actually) and Amphitryon, a silly gods-among-the-mortals farce enhanced by lavish sets and stretches of rhymed dialogue (even as a non-German speaker I could appreciate the musicality of this). Both of these will be on my list, but neither quite as high up as my favourite German film from the period (so far!), Mädchen in Uniform; couldn't quite find space for the same actresses' Anna und Elisabeth, which was interesting but seemed somewhat unpolished (this may have something to do with the choppiness/poor subtitling of the bootleg).
Still hope to fit in Fährmann Maria and Der Kongress tanzt before the end of the week. Certainly, I have found the early German talkies to be the most consistently exciting new terrain for this decade (as a viewer who prefers the artifice of Hollywood to the realism of France), and am grateful to Tommaso and Lubitsch for their work in promoting them.
On the (Austro-)German theme, though, I thoroughly enjoyed two of Tommaso's other recommendations: Maskerade, which is indeed impeccably stylish (much preferred it to Liebelei, actually) and Amphitryon, a silly gods-among-the-mortals farce enhanced by lavish sets and stretches of rhymed dialogue (even as a non-German speaker I could appreciate the musicality of this). Both of these will be on my list, but neither quite as high up as my favourite German film from the period (so far!), Mädchen in Uniform; couldn't quite find space for the same actresses' Anna und Elisabeth, which was interesting but seemed somewhat unpolished (this may have something to do with the choppiness/poor subtitling of the bootleg).
Still hope to fit in Fährmann Maria and Der Kongress tanzt before the end of the week. Certainly, I have found the early German talkies to be the most consistently exciting new terrain for this decade (as a viewer who prefers the artifice of Hollywood to the realism of France), and am grateful to Tommaso and Lubitsch for their work in promoting them.
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
This is true, unfortunately, and in this respect the film only documents the approach of the modern Olympics then and now. Interesting, however, that Riefenstahl quite openly dwells extensively on the successes of Jesse Owens, whose wins apparently were especially disliked by Hitler and his gang (an African-American better than the glorious 'Aryan' athletes?! The 'Führer' was not amused...). In some way this goes for the whole film: Riefenstahl's images always concentrate on the bodies and in general on the purely aesthetic aspect of sports, while the commentary voice stresses the 'nationalist' aspect much more. But it's not worse than in any modern day sports broadcast, for which of course this film was the 'classical' model. I'll have it on my list, even though it won't rank especially high.Gropius wrote:Finally watched Riefenstahl's Olympia. This won't be making my list, mainly because, while the film is full of excellent photography (particularly in the second part), I personally despise the Olympics as a concept and an institution. The aesthetic value of the individual athletic displays is marred by the overwhelming preoccupation with petty nationalist victories.
The subtitles are poor indeed, they barely translate the gist of the dialogue (and the film isn't even dialogue-heavy) and thus may make it appear rougher than it is. Unfortunately, this might be the only surviving print. It was shown in this form - with those burnt-in English subs - ages ago on German TV (on one of the channels of the former GDR, to be precise), and didn't surface again since then. The choppiness is there, indeed, but is most likely mainly the result of this print having been shortened for American or British distribution. It can't be helped and perhaps should be kept in mind when watching the film, as there's next to no hope for a better version at the moment.Gropius wrote: Anna und Elisabeth, which was interesting but seemed somewhat unpolished (this may have something to do with the choppiness/poor subtitling of the bootleg).
- thirtyframesasecond
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:48 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Just submitted my list, assume it's safe to jump into the 40s...
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I watched American Madness tonight. It was a charming movie, Walter Huston was amazing in it, and it had fewer cringeworthy political aspects than most of the Capra I've seen- I'm totally on board with the philosophy it seemed to embrace.
There are parts of the plot that don't seem like they make a lot of sense- the whole gangster subplot seems remarkably poorly thought out on their end, and there was a bit of a manipulative aspect to the climax:
Overall, I liked it quite a lot- it's not as funny as most of the other 30s Capra I've seen, but I don't think that's what it was aiming for. There's an irony to the way Capra is heartwarming that's as true here as it will be in It's a Wonderful Life (for which this movie is an obvious precursor)- he believes in people with all his heart, but he spends most of the movie showing them at their absolute worst, and making you feel sick about how shitty they are. The mob scene in the bank is almost Langian in how nasty and stupid it views people as being when they're massed in that way, and Capra has almost no interest in humanizing the characters he doesn't like. Still, it's hard not to admire a movie that's willing to be this passionate about fiduciary policy, and it's nice to see a representation of bankers that doesn't reduce them automatically to cold hearted, mustache-twirling villains- though I fear that bankers like Huston may no longer exist.
It's hard for me to decide if I feel like it would be reasonable to put this on my list, and leave something like You Can't Take it With You off- in that one, I think I had higher highs, but it also made me angrier. It's possible that I need to reconsider all the Capra I've seen now, as I've finally watched enough of his movies to have some kind of a grasp on how he works- and I think the things that irritate me about his movies fade more quickly than the things I like.
There are parts of the plot that don't seem like they make a lot of sense- the whole gangster subplot seems remarkably poorly thought out on their end, and there was a bit of a manipulative aspect to the climax:
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it seemed hard to believe that Huston, as we've seen him, would not have faith in his wife, and O'Brien's unwillingness to explain what he had seen was infuriating, but I think it was alleviated by the impression that it was primarily the run on the bank that was getting Huston down- as soon as he regains his faith in humanity as a whole, his faith in his wife is instantly restored along with it.
Overall, I liked it quite a lot- it's not as funny as most of the other 30s Capra I've seen, but I don't think that's what it was aiming for. There's an irony to the way Capra is heartwarming that's as true here as it will be in It's a Wonderful Life (for which this movie is an obvious precursor)- he believes in people with all his heart, but he spends most of the movie showing them at their absolute worst, and making you feel sick about how shitty they are. The mob scene in the bank is almost Langian in how nasty and stupid it views people as being when they're massed in that way, and Capra has almost no interest in humanizing the characters he doesn't like. Still, it's hard not to admire a movie that's willing to be this passionate about fiduciary policy, and it's nice to see a representation of bankers that doesn't reduce them automatically to cold hearted, mustache-twirling villains- though I fear that bankers like Huston may no longer exist.
It's hard for me to decide if I feel like it would be reasonable to put this on my list, and leave something like You Can't Take it With You off- in that one, I think I had higher highs, but it also made me angrier. It's possible that I need to reconsider all the Capra I've seen now, as I've finally watched enough of his movies to have some kind of a grasp on how he works- and I think the things that irritate me about his movies fade more quickly than the things I like.
- Murdoch
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
Make sure to see Bitter Tea of General Yen before voting closes, it's the best Capra movie for those who aren't Capra fans.
- matrixschmatrix
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Re: 1930s List Discussion and Suggestions
I'd like to, but I'm not sure I'll get the chance in the next couple of days. I'll make sure to see it sooner or later, though.Murdoch wrote:Make sure to see Bitter Tea of General Yen before voting closes, it's the best Capra movie for those who aren't Capra fans.
I'm watching The Milky Way now, and it's pretty great so far- it uses Lloyd's physicality well, and while he's still not the strongest vocal performer, it surrounds him with a cast of ringers (including a really fun Adolph Menjou performance.) It's witty and quick, and not a letdown in McCarey's streak in the least- and might wind up on my list.Shrew wrote:Haven't seen The Milky Way, though McCarey and a shorter running time with hopefully better pacing intrigues me. Thoughts?