Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

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peerpee
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#201 Post by peerpee » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:08 pm

Reverend Drewcifer wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:57 pm
8-[ ...catching up with this thread after moving house over the last few weeks. FWIW, Lost Highway looked gauzy/muddy and dim when I saw it in 1997. I remember it being described as a "war wound up in a silk dress" in David Breskin's Inner Views, and that's what it has always looked like. The VHS (even with letter-boxing) looked rotten, and the DVD was mastered to look/sound like a dimly-recalled memory, but this film was never going to benefit from more bits and a razor-sharp master. It. Was. Never. Sharp. What it needs is responsible color-timing and less smearing, with a close eye on keeping all the reds and ochres from blooming. The Kino disc achieves that. If I'm too easily pleased, I'll eat it, but if any BD from any company comes close to what played in the theater, I'll part with some disposable income this year, and I'll part with it again when Lynch wins this battle in a few more years. "Principle" is what people conjure up when they are a-ok with watching money walk out the front door, and Kino didn't want to write this shit show off as a poor investment. Sure, they are definitely "exploiting" the title, but they haven't ground it into dust, re-cut it, or turned it into something it's not or never was. Maybe "pragmatic" is "too easily pleased," but my eyes don't deceive me that this Kino release is an acceptable place-holder, my Lost Highway DVD is woefully obsolete, and making David Lynch happy is waaaaaaaaaaay down my list of priorities. I wouldn't waste any time mollifying that man. Going into business with him in any way is an abject lesson in how artistes are more like children than anyone else in any other trade craft. His original (and only!) word on the matter registers his dissatisfaction, but it was not a call to action from the commentariat to curb-stomp anyone from either side, and the responses in this forum are not at all proportional to what amounts to what will inevitably be a blip in the home video history of this film. Kino made a solid business decision and then a lot of bad PR mopping up, so this is definitely a teachable moment for those who serve as their representatives, but theirs is not and never will be the final word on a film that will have an extremely difficult time reproducing its theatrical look, even with our favorite boutique label at the helm, and even with a contented David Lynch blowing bubbles in his chocolate milk.

The bile vomited up over this whole imbroglio, for a transfer that doesn't demand attention but doesn't deserve scorn, is frankly embarrassing.
So, you saw a terrible projection in 1997, David Lynch is way down your list of priorities, and you posted 500 words about it. Great story!

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#202 Post by peerpee » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:11 pm

David M. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:04 pm
It would allow 60 images per second (as fields), so more evenly distributed image repetitions, while maintaining full vertical resolution - on some hardware.

Lessened vertical resolution (if the hardware fell back into video deinterlacing mode) would look slightly jagged, not something I would describe as ghosted.
It's this inconsistency of display on different hardware that's the problem. If, when I pause the disc, I cannot get a clean frame (ie a non-interlaced, or non-jagged image) then the fusing of the fields creates an illusion in motion which introduces a loss of definition – the type which cannot be measured from still imagery, because it's occurring in motion. Does that make sense?

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#203 Post by davidhuxley » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:40 pm

Kino Insider wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:16 pm
Once we knew we couldn't even include a trailer and I knew how he hated chapters, I asked my boss if we could include 1 chapter every minute, instead of our usual 8 chapters, but he said no. :)
So professional! Bet you're glad you kept your job...

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#204 Post by jsteffe » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:58 pm

Tenia, thanks - that is exactly what I meant.
peerpee wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:56 pm
A decision not to have released it could have led to the end of Universal’s deal being bought out and a proper 4K release emerging sooner.

Lynch isn’t going to be around forever.
But does anyone here (besides KL) know anything about KL's actual deal with Universal, how long Universal will actually control the rights to the film in the U.S., etc.? Is there any way to know whether any of this would have made any difference in terms of hastening the time frame for a 4K restoration? I suspect there are too many unknown variables at play to say anything definitive.

Anyway, the French Blu-ray came out years ago and is now out of print, Lynch has a solid following in France, and the negative is located there - so there is no reason why someone in France can't release a new 4K restoration with Lynch's full cooperation. If Lynch himself is seriously committed to getting the film restored there should be a way to make it happen.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#205 Post by Finch » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:04 pm

The bile vomited up over this whole imbroglio, for a transfer that doesn't demand attention but doesn't deserve scorn, is frankly embarrassing.
Expressing sympathy for a director who's tired of companies ignoring his oft-stated wishes again is "bile vomited up"?

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#206 Post by Forrest Taft » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:26 am

I was at a screening of the new DCP of Blue Velvet yesterday, with an intro from Lee Kline. He had this to say about working with Lynch on a project such as this: Lynch never starts working before 7 pm, and he needs an unlimited supply of popcorn, M&Ms and gummy bears. With this in mind, would Kino have been able to accomodate? If not, there would not have been a Lynch-approved new disc, regardless of whether or not he had replied to their e-mails.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#207 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:31 am

It sounds like having patience is one of the most important aspects for working with Lynch. If you're not going to have that then it just won't work.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#208 Post by Reverend Drewcifer » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:12 am

Talk to anyone at ABC television c. 1998-1999 and it becomes very clear that their issue with taking Mulholland Dr. to series was not rooted solely with the material in the pilot.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#209 Post by Lost Highway » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:41 am

I’m very happy Lynch dug in his heels over Twin Peak The Return in regard to budget and number of episodes, because he created a masterpiece. He thoroughly deserved all the popcorn and Haribos he was contractually entitled to.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#210 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:45 am

While I do wish he would have been forced to handle the show with half the runtime, but that's just me. ;)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#211 Post by jsteffe » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:56 am

Lost Highway wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:41 am
I’m very happy Lynch dug in his heels over Twin Peak The Return in regard to budget and number of episodes, because he created a masterpiece. He thoroughly deserved all the popcorn and Haribos he was contractually entitled to.
I was about to make some snarky comment about Barbra Streisand-like demands, but your'e right. Anyone who can create something like Episode 8 for television deserves some accommodations for quirky demands, and anyway it sounds as if his underlying motivation is to make the process fun.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#212 Post by Kino Insider » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 pm

A few words about...™ Lost Highway -- in Blu-ray
★★★★1/4 out of ★★★★★ - Video
★★★★★ out of ★★★★★ - Audio

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... ay.362620/

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TwoTecs
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#213 Post by TwoTecs » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:31 pm

Keep reading people talking about how the film is supposed to look "dirty" and how that is somehow a justification for a less than ideal transfer. The "dirty" look of the film should be represented as faithfully as it can be and the answer for that is a 4k scan of the OCN.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#214 Post by peerpee » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:01 pm

Kino Insider wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 pm
A few words about...™ Lost Highway -- in Blu-ray
★★★★1/4 out of ★★★★★ - Video
★★★★★ out of ★★★★★ - Audio

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... ay.362620/
“It's not perfect”

“I don't know the film that well”

“I've not a clue.”

“Mr. Lynch may have just wanted things this way.”

“As a film, it never really made any sense. It seemed like art for the sake of art.”

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#215 Post by GetHarryPalmer » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:15 pm

peerpee wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:01 pm
Kino Insider wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 pm
A few words about...™ Lost Highway -- in Blu-ray
★★★★1/4 out of ★★★★★ - Video
★★★★★ out of ★★★★★ - Audio

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... ay.362620/
“It's not perfect”

“I don't know the film that well”

“I've not a clue.”

“Mr. Lynch may have just wanted things this way.”

“As a film, it never really made any sense. It seemed like art for the sake of art.”
What Kino has released is perfectly lovely. Color, densities, black levels, grain structure, all look very much like film. And that works for me.

All of those rabid Lynch fans should be thoroughly delighted.

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knives
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#216 Post by knives » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:17 pm

Of course a Kino employee would say that. (I'm neutral on this, but find that comment funny)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#217 Post by swo17 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:28 pm

This is playing out so much like the end of mother! it isn't even funny

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#218 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:31 pm

The broken sink didn’t meet David Lynch’s weighty requirements

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#219 Post by GetHarryPalmer » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:16 am

knives wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:17 pm
Of course a Kino employee would say that. (I'm neutral on this, but find that comment funny)
It's Robert Harris' quotes from his review. Just like the ones Peerpee listed, his Fox News version of the review was followed by the actual end of the review. And I'm not a Kino employee, I used to work in the industry and have friends at many of these boutique labels.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#220 Post by Lost Highway » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:37 am

Not sure why Robert Harris’ personal views on the film itself should be held against this blu-ray release. This discussion is getting blu-ray.com-forum levels of absurd in its pettiness. It appears that the PQ of this release looks pretty good.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#221 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:57 am

TwoTecs wrote:Keep reading people talking about how the film is supposed to look "dirty" and how that is somehow a justification for a less than ideal transfer. The "dirty" look of the film should be represented as faithfully as it can be and the answer for that is a 4k scan of the OCN.
I saw it twice in 35mm the week it opened, and I don’t remember it looking “dirty”. Dark, absolutely, and I suspect only a 4K HDR scan off the original camera neg can truly do justice to the early scenes - but not dirty.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#222 Post by tenia » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:16 am

peerpee wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:01 pm
“It's not perfect”
“I don't know the film that well”
“I've not a clue.”
“Mr. Lynch may have just wanted things this way.”
“As a film, it never really made any sense. It seemed like art for the sake of art.”
Robert Harris is very skilled when it comes to supervising restorations themselves, but not that much (at all) when it comes to judging them on BD. He notoriously gave very good scores to Criterion's Madame De, missed the issues on One From The Heart, and more recently had lots of issues accepting his buddies from Universal's new restoration of An American Werewolf in London is degrained (which led to, expectedly, very akward mixing ups like mixing compression with DNR).
Lost Highway wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:37 am
It appears that the PQ of this release looks pretty good.
It technically is OK, but there's no way I'd ever give this a better score than 7 out of 10. It certainly shouldn't ever get 9+ (or maybe it'll be another case of Svet discreetly avoiding reviewing it again the day it's released in a better new restoration, because he'd have to score it 6 out of 5 to properly reflect the size of the upgrade) (see Shoah).

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highwa

#223 Post by Lost Highway » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:51 am

tenia wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:16 am
peerpee wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:01 pm
“It's not perfect”
“I don't know the film that well”
“I've not a clue.”
“Mr. Lynch may have just wanted things this way.”
“As a film, it never really made any sense. It seemed like art for the sake of art.”
Robert Harris is very skilled when it comes to supervising restorations themselves, but not that much (at all) when it comes to judging them on BD. He notoriously gave very good scores to Criterion's Madame De, missed the issues on One From The Heart, and more recently had lots of issues accepting his buddies from Universal's new restoration of An American Werewolf in London is degrained (which led to, expectedly, very akward mixing ups like mixing compression with DNR).
Lost Highway wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:37 am
It appears that the PQ of this release looks pretty good.
It technically is OK, but there's no way I'd ever give this a better score than 7 out of 10. It certainly shouldn't ever get 9+ (or maybe it'll be another case of Svet discreetly avoiding reviewing it again the day it's released in a better new restoration, because he'd have to score it 6 out of 5 to properly reflect the size of the upgrade) (see Shoah).
Do you actually own the title and have you watched it ? That’s something which is not clear from everything you’ve posted here because you certainly speak like you have.

I had a look at my German Concorde blu-ray last night which I had not watched in a couple of years and even that is acceptable. It’s certainly not the blurry disaster of so many German blu-ray releases of dated masters ( Soderbergh’s Solaris, What Lies Beneath) which I own. Detail is surprisingly good, the contrast is too high, something which appears to have been corrected for the later Studio Canal release.

The politics and dick waggling behind all of this have become insufferable. I’m not interested in bickering how many stars out of 10 Svet should give, the man clearly is a moron but the release can be worthwhile despite his glowing recommendation. The same goes for Harris, just because he’s been wrong in the past doesn’t mean his endorsement spells doom here. At this point the argument seem to be about who is the most right, not whether this is an above average presentation, something I hope for in most cases. I’m pleasantly surprised whenever a release goes above and beyond, as most don’t.

At this point I’m only interested to hear from people who have personally watched the KL release on a first rate display.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highwa

#224 Post by tenia » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:03 am

Lost Highway wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:51 am
Do you actually own the title and have you watched it ? That’s something which is not clear from everything you’ve posted here because you certainly speak like you have.
I do and I did. The screencaps I posted, notably, are my own. I didn't watch the MK2 disc all over again however, but only screened portions of it to do A/B comparisons with the Kino disc. Such a score might thus be leaning slightly too much on my memory but I'd probably score the MK2 6 out of 10. Might have given it 6.5 but if I give 7 to the Kino, I don't think half a point seizes the differences between them enough, and I don't think the Kino to be worth a 7.5 so here you go.
Lost Highway wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:51 am
The politics and dick waggling behind all of this have become insufferable. I’m not interested in bickering how many stars out of 10 Svet should give, the man clearly is a moron but the release can be worthwhile despite his glowing recommendation. The same goes for Harris, just because he’s been wrong in the past doesn’t mean his endorsement spells doom here.
While I do agree the discussion probably is longer than it should (does simply using an older pre-existing master justify this, especially since it's not unusual within the industry ?), should we be surprised for a release to be discussed this way on a specialised board ? I'm not.
As for Harris, it's not a sophism but just choosing my sources carefully in order for them to be, IMO, trustworthy. Harris knows a huge lot, and the quality of the restorations he supervised speaks for that, but I don't think it transfers well into his BD reviews (though people are entitled to think otherwise). However, I'm certainly not saying what you suggest, ie that his endorsement spells doom, but rather some kind of opposite : his endorsement simply means nothing to me. He's not the harbringer of anything, he just seems he's not discriminative enough.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#225 Post by Lost Highway » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:05 am

Ok, thanks tenia. If it isn’t a huge step up from the MK2/Concorde then I’ll probably go for the Studio Canal release instead of the KL.

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