147 In the Mood for Love

[Calvin]

I suspect that its individual release in November is Criterion anticipating a good showing in the Sight & Sound poll as much as anything else.

[Quote Perf Unquote]

It's pathetic to consider the possibility that an army of mouth-breathing A24-Stans and WKW Johnny-Come-Latelys are in any way arbiters of the final accepted form of a great film like "ITMFL." I know WKW started this with his Jar Jar Binks Special Editions, but if any of the above is true, it's just one more reason to dislike these... people.

[dekadetia]

One thing is clear: the revisionist color timing shifts In the Mood for Love away from its original look and toward a garish, unsubtle parody of its original look. I think that's kind of been the issue all along, and Everything Everywhere has just served to make it that much more apparent.

[ryannichols7]

One thing is clear: the revisionist color timing shifts In the Mood for Love away from its original look and toward a garish, unsubtle parody of its original look. I think that's kind of been the issue all along, and Everything Everywhere has just served to make it that much more apparent.

this is all I was trying to say, thank you for stating it more clearly than I did. that movie has only made it all the more challenging to make the argument that the original is correct. because it is!

not a knock at you TWBB!! I know you know what's right and what isn't

[zedz]

Is this now the film with the most Criterion editions?
Original DVD
First BluRay
Box set revised version
UHD

I'd say "upgrades", but that might be arguable!

[ryannichols7]

Is this now the film with the most Criterion editions?
Original DVD
First BluRay
Box set revised version
UHD

I'd say "upgrades", but that might be arguable!

I think The Seventh Seal or Monterrey Pop could have it beat if they get the UHD bump but yes, I believe this is correct as of now

Playtime had two DVDs and two Blurays actually, no? if it gets a UHD (and it absolutely should!!), it would win too

[fiendishthingy]

Is this now the film with the most Criterion editions?
Original DVD
First BluRay
Box set revised version
UHD

I'd say "upgrades", but that might be arguable!

It has to be up there, though there have also been quite a few releases of The 400 Blows between stand-alone editions (including dual format, if I’m not mistaken) and the Doinel box set. There may be some other titles like that that have been included in box sets and also released on their own in various formats, but that was the first that sprang to mind.

[dwk]

Not counting laserdiscs, Seven Samurai has been released:
Original DVD
DVD 2 (with the restoration demo removed)
DVD 3 (3-disc special edition)
DVD in Kurosawa 100 box set
DVD in Essential Art House: 50 Years of Janus Films Box set
Blu-ray

[derekbd]

Another one here who loves the film dearly but won't be buying this UHD due to the revisionist colors. I don't mind this being SDR only but the new colors is still a deal breaker.

I'm right with you. I don't intend to subject myself to the "green version" ever again.

Now if (when) they release UHD blus of Fallen Angels or 2046 I'll be there. Days of Being Wild as well, though I imagine it's the last that would be.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I was hoping for 2046 as a stand-alone release, but that would have been so easier for me and us...
I keep my Blu-Ray of "In The Mood For Love", but I'm intrigued to see it in UHD even with the "new" color grading...
Is it really that bad ? (2046 was the one who looks the more "untempered" so to speak)

[shiftyeyes]

Another one here who loves the film dearly but won't be buying this UHD due to the revisionist colors. I don't mind this being SDR only but the new colors is still a deal breaker.

I'm right with you. I don't intend to subject myself to the "green version" ever again.

Now if (when) they release UHD blus of Fallen Angels or 2046 I'll be there. Days of Being Wild as well, though I imagine it's the last that would be.

Don't most find the changes to Fallen Angels and Days of Being Wild even more offensive?

Personally, I'm not too bothered by the change in ITMFL's colors. I wouldn't mind something a bit subtler. But I've watched the Blu-ray and seen it in theaters and I even own the French UHD. Personally, it doesn't distract me from getting lost in the movie.

[tenia]

Apologies for not specifying; I was going against the notion that people who were defending the restoration of ItMfL were doing so because it resembled Everything Everywhere's homage by saying that the sequence in Everything Everywhere did not resemble the restoration of ItMfL in my opinion. I hope that clarifies things.

Don't worry, I understood what you meant and was further developping along this notion. To me, EEATO evokes WKW's style as a whole (and I'm quite sure people will remember the choppy slow motion rather than the color palette of this few scenes) and is not meant to be a perfect replication of a new restoration's color grading of one specific movie.

I might be underestimating this but I also think it's extremely far-fetched to imagine these few scenes enabling that within a high number of people who are not that likely to have seen any of WKW movies before, let alone be aware of things like debatable restorations' color-gradings.
Especially, again, when the set yaysayers were already defending it a full year before EEATO got released.

[therewillbeblus]

I think some people are just capitalizing on an opportunity to take shots at the Daniels film and its fans. It's a tenuous argument to assume they're connected in any meaningful way beyond some folks harboring condescending feelings towards both.

Daniel Kaluuya wears a Rage Against the Machine T-shirt in Nope and it's been referenced as an intentional costume design to assist in the messaging in Peele's film by repurposing the band's name divorced from the band itself. So I'm waiting for an argument that Peele's film's fans are in support of the band's next hiatus.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I would like to know if the part of the documentary "One-Tenth of a Millimeter Apart" with the In The Mood For Love exclusive footage (day 1) could be include for the upcoming combo UHD/Blu-Ray release of "In The Mood For Love"
Unfortunately it came out after the release of the Wong Kar Wai box set
It is dated from 2021.
I wonder if we could contact Criterion if there is a chance that this footage (the one from the documentary "One-Tenth of a Millimeter Apart") + this other scene (which is not available so far) could be included in this "In The Mood For Love" reissue.
If Criterion could "catch up" these intriguing footage, this would make this new UHD/Blu-Ray release priceless.

this amazing documentary contains alternate ending of several WKW movies, including the unseen footage of the 1999 year scene (a parallel world?) with Maggie Cheung and Tony Leung, a scene which will become later a part of My Blueberry Nights but unfortunately the In The Mood For Bluebberry Nights "kiss" scene is not included in this documentary; but another "alternate future" opening scene.
This part happens in an alternate future (and turned out to be the first day of shooting - marked "Day One")

I have seen the documentary "One-Tenth of a Millimeter Apart" and this is wonderful to see this footage.

I wonder, if Criterion missed this opportunity if some other X4 restoration of "In The Mood For Love" in other countries will have this wonderful exclusive footage.

there is a different scene which was described on a blog and which is from another scene (and inspired later My Blueberry Nights's "circular" kiss) there is a photoshoot of this scene on a blog (and it was seen just once in France.)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16942&start=1100

[vsski]

I haven’t seen the Daniels film yet, although will definitely do when I get the chance, but I also find it a bit far fetched that the film serves as proof that the new versions are now all that matters.
If anything it tells me that Daniels only has the new version to work with.

I think the part that makes me sad is that so few people seem to care about the fact that the old versions are disappearing. Is it really that people don’t care, is it because they don’t know any better, or is it because they are made to believe that the new versions are the only ones that matter?
I don’t know the answer, but it’s clear that the majority of reviews I read - even the ones that mention the changes - don’t put up a strong defense for the old versions.

Like many on this board here I love WKW’s movies and I experienced them in the old versions and in some cases have vivid memories of where I was when I saw them and the impact they had on me at the time. So seeing a different version than what I came to love is like eating one of my favorite childhood dishes with a key ingredient missing - it’s not indigestible, but it just doesn’t taste as good anymore.

And all of this would be a non-issue if WKW would have allowed to have both versions included. Why he thinks that movies that were praised the world over in their original versions are suddenly so atrocious that he can’t bear to see them being shown or experienced in those versions anymore, I will never understand.

[derekbd]

Another one here who loves the film dearly but won't be buying this UHD due to the revisionist colors. I don't mind this being SDR only but the new colors is still a deal breaker.

I'm right with you. I don't intend to subject myself to the "green version" ever again.

Now if (when) they release UHD blus of Fallen Angels or 2046 I'll be there. Days of Being Wild as well, though I imagine it's the last that would be.

Don't most find the changes to Fallen Angels and Days of Being Wild even more offensive?

I have no idea about what "most" find. Having only come to appreciate WKW in the last decade, I don't have memories of ALL the previous versions lodged in my head as many seem to. Though I'd watched ITMFL many many times, I had seen Fallen Angels only once or twice, and some years ago. The very wide-screen version in the box-set that was apparently WKW's intention all along suits the film so well, imo.
I do wish the new colour-grading of Days of Being Wild had been dialed back a bit, but to have a proper HD release after so many years of longing for it, and that the film has always had a sort of "underwater" atmosphere what with the mostly nighttime-set heat and the sweat and rain, I don't mind its change so much.

[shiftyeyes]

I'm right with you. I don't intend to subject myself to the "green version" ever again.

Now if (when) they release UHD blus of Fallen Angels or 2046 I'll be there. Days of Being Wild as well, though I imagine it's the last that would be.

Don't most find the changes to Fallen Angels and Days of Being Wild even more offensive?

I have no idea about what "most" find. Having only come to appreciate WKW in the last decade, I don't have memories of ALL the previous versions lodged in my head as many seem to. Though I'd watched ITMFL many many times, I had seen Fallen Angels only once or twice, and some years ago. The very wide-screen version in the box-set that was apparently WKW's intention all along suits the film so well, imo.
I do wish the new colour-grading of Days of Being Wild had been dialed back a bit, but to have a proper HD release after so many years of longing for it, and that the film has always had a sort of "underwater" atmosphere what with the mostly nighttime-set heat and the sweat and rain, I don't mind its change so much.

I kinda like the new Fallen Angels, but many point to it as the smoking gun evidence that WKW has lost his sanity! I don't mind Days of Being Wild either but wish it was a little subtler myself.

I think the part that makes me sad is that so few people seem to care about the fact that the old versions are disappearing. Is it really that people don’t care, is it because they don’t know any better, or is it because they are made to believe that the new versions are the only ones that matter?
I don’t know the answer, but it’s clear that the majority of reviews I read - even the ones that mention the changes - don’t put up a strong defense for the old versions.

Like many on this board here I love WKW’s movies and I experienced them in the old versions and in some cases have vivid memories of where I was when I saw them and the impact they had on me at the time. So seeing a different version than what I came to love is like eating one of my favorite childhood dishes with a key ingredient missing - it’s not indigestible, but it just doesn’t taste as good anymore.

And all of this would be a non-issue if WKW would have allowed to have both versions included. Why he thinks that movies that were praised the world over in their original versions are suddenly so atrocious that he can’t bear to see them being shown or experienced in those versions anymore, I will never understand.

As someone who has a keen interest in preserving/collecting old releases of my favorite films, I find this to be an admirable sentiment. But I admit I've probably grown rather desensitized to all these color debates. I've seen many remasters that look different from the last and endless discussion of who's right and who's wrong. You have directors and cinematographers who have approved vastly different transfers over the years. And random dudes on the internet who claim they saw a print 20 years ago and the new remaster is a travesty. Then the next guy says he saw a print 25 years ago who claims the new version is spot on. Color changes are all so common within the life cycle of a film. I was looking at the Rolling Thunder DVD of Chungking Express the other day and it's vastly different from the Blu-ray, and different from the new restoration still. Depending on what transfer you see first, everyone yearns for the nostalgia of a previous version, and who's to say what's right? It's all become a subjective experience of what, when, how, etc.

It's funny how we're all so affected by our nostalgia for how we first viewed these films because the interplay of time and memory is a common theme in WKW's works. How long can we carry the torch for these previous versions? Can we ever truly return to our memories of how we first saw these films? Does a specific color timing of a film expire like a lost love or a can of pineapples? All that remains are the ashes of time.

WKW says this is how ITMFL should look now. Personally, it does not bother me. But then I also own the other version too so I can always go back to it should I choose to. And that goes for all of his films. Do I wish this new edition could have both color timings? Sure, but I know it may not be in accordance with WKW's wishes and Criterion probably wouldn't want the extra expense of adding a disc. That's why I haven't sold the old one. Should previous color timings be preserved for the future? As a collector of this stuff, I say yes. But in a way I also envy that person who can watch these films for the first time unburdened by recollections of past versions.

[MichaelB]

And random dudes on the internet who claim they saw a print 20 years ago and the new remaster is a travesty. Then the next guy says he saw a print 25 years ago who claims the new version is spot on.

And they may both be right, of course.

For the unwashed masses to be able to compare the colours between different releases was pretty much inconceivable until the turn of the millennium, and you have only to look at the differences between the Criterion and BFI versions of Red Desert (each of which was conscientiously graded by people who knew what they were doing, but to a different archival reference print) to see the problem.

For instance, for me, the Synapse Suspiria is the only video edition of any kind that matches my memory of two early-80s 35mm screenings, wherein I vividly remember the retina-scorching blues and reds to this day - but who's to say that what I saw back then (almost certainly the same print on both occasions) was necessarily "correct"? And yes, the Synapse version was approved by cinematographer Luciano Tovoli - but the alternative restoration was approved by Dario Argento (and this version definitely does not match my memories!).

[tenia]

The issue, as I regularly write, isn't that there are differences over the years on the gradings of a given movie, but that any proper root cause analysis on at least 250 movies yield the labs as sole responsibles for harmonising those hundreds of movies together by applying an intense color signature on all of them, no matter the movies (look at what happened with the Claude Berri movies at Pathé).

I'm OK with understanding that colors are hard to exactly pinpoint during a restoration and that as a result, a movie's grading can evolve over the various remasters because of the sources used as references, because of a different supervisor, but it should remain more marginal, and even more importantly, a given look certainly shouldn't appear solely because it has been applied as an institutional signature by the restorer. What are we supposed to do with this ? Not only the sensations given by the movie's style can be vastly altered (eg Autumn Sonata), but as it is today, we do know why these restorations are looking like this and not otherwise, and the reason isn't very good ethically wise.

And for all we know regarding the WKW movies, it might very well be that at least part of the color changes are stemming from the lab and not the director.

[dwk]

[/quote]

And random dudes on the internet who claim they saw a print 20 years ago and the new remaster is a travesty. Then the next guy says he saw a print 25 years ago who claims the new version is spot on.

And they may both be right, of course.

For the unwashed masses to be able to compare the colours between different releases was pretty much inconceivable until the turn of the millennium, and you have only to look at the differences between the Criterion and BFI versions of Red Desert (each of which was conscientiously graded by people who knew what they were doing, but to a different archival reference print) to see the problem.

For instance, for me, the Synapse Suspiria is the only video edition of any kind that matches my memory of two early-80s 35mm screenings, wherein I vividly remember the retina-scorching blues and reds to this day - but who's to say that what I saw back then (almost certainly the same print on both occasions) was necessarily "correct"? And yes, the Synapse version was approved by cinematographer Luciano Tovoli - but the alternative restoration was approved by Dario Argento (and this version definitely does not match my memories!).

Or Criterion's experience on working on McCabe & Mrs. Miller. Lee Kline talked about how they looked at multiple prints for reference (9, I think, was the number given) and every one was different.

When dealing with film, complete accuracy to theatrical prints really is kind of impossible and maybe something you don't fully want (i.e. Scream's Dog Soldiers Blu-ray, from a theatrical print, vs. the UHDs). Just using a scan of the negative for your master's starting point results in a different grain, sharpness/detail, and contrast than what people would have seed in the theaters. (Still it'd be nice if stuff wasn't Ritrovata'd or Eclair'd to hell.)

And for all we know regarding the WKW movies, it might very well be that at least part of the color changes are stemming from the lab and not the director.

In this case the color on these wasn't done at Ritrovata, so it is safe to assume WKW wanted them to look like this.

[ballmouse]

Surprisingly, Criterion did not have WKW to directly state anything about the color in his director's note: https://www.criterion.com/current/posts ... tor-s-note

[tenia]

Surprisingly, Criterion did not have WKW to directly state anything about the color in his director's note: https://www.criterion.com/current/posts ... tor-s-note

The credits indeed aren't all that clear. Also, I seem to recall Ritrovata having helped a couple of labs that were getting started, so it can very well be that they had a hand in this somehow.
Finally, I don't know of a single movie that looks like it's been graded by Ritrovata and that didn't have Ritrovata involved in some fashion in the restoration process. Without the exact details of who did what and how, it can't be completely excluded that they offered at least some input.

[dwk]

The original Blu-ray is not going to be going OOP.

[FrauBlucher]

I like when they pretend that the imaginary person is not available

[ryannichols7]

The original Blu-ray is not going to be going OOP.

considering the original versions are still on the channel too, I do believe them on this. I think this is another situation (I believe Heaven's Gate was the other) where you can tell Criterion wanted to include all versions of the movie but the director insisted they include their "definitive" one